Banner conversation: 2014

Date posted here does not necessarily match the date minutes were submitted.

This is the copied and pasted conversation about the new banners from the old forum. PDF of that document is here.

Collected 10/21/2020 by Kerch McConlogue before deleting the original in the private board forum at TEAE.org

April 2, 2014 at 9:47 pm #58143
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

The need for new club banners was discussed. The original club banners are held by Tom Ehrhart and are in very poor condition. Banners made and used for the 2008 United were never retrieved after the event. Joe Parlanti advised he knows of a company—Half Price Banners—that has very reasonable prices. Ensuing discussion determined the cost from this company was worthy of further consideration. Joe Parlanti will check with the company in the next 2 weeks and will get prices for various size banners. Once obtained, additional action can be taken.

Joe Parlanti have you checked with Half Price Banners for sizes and prices?

I have checked into the banners and here are a couple of example prices (all banners are 13oz. vinyl, full color with grommets:

2′ x 10′ (good for the top of a 10′ EZ-up) – $49

3′ x 3′ (I believe this is close to the old banner size) – $23

I’ve used halpricebanners.com several times in the past and they do good work. Once we decide on the content, I can do the graphics and organize the purchase.

Thanks,

JVP

Tom Ehrhart do you actually have club banners in your possession?

I have one banner. It’s an old “Alpines East” banner. Depsite Pat Johnson promise to return banners and Curt Bowlands offer to Pat in writing to pay shipping, we do not have the banners. We do need to go through with purchase of new banners in time for this year’s United. We also need to develop an agreed upon display. We have had many iterations of logos and branding ID’s (TEAE & RA) and sloagons like “Preservation of Rootes vehicles’…..” We need to use this opportunty to state who we are now and the future. TT


April 5, 2014 at 3:19 pm #65587
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

I need feedback from everyone on what we want on these banners.

What logo(s) do we want to use? Who has the best file on them?

What wording do we want to use?

What size should the banners be?

How many banners do we need? Remember it was discussed to have one for each Regional Representative to use at their regional events.

Pam


  April 27, 2014 at 10:58 pm #65626
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Hi all,

I’ve been on the road again, but have been following the emails regarding new banners for our club.

Joe Parlanti, gave us some sizes and prices:

I have checked into the banners and here are a couple of example prices (all banners are 13oz. vinyl, full color with grommets:

2′ x 10′ (good for the top of a 10′ EZ-up) – $49

3′ x 3′ (I believe this is close to the old banner size) – $23

I’ve used halpricebanners.com several times in the past and they do good work. Once we decide on the content, I can do the graphics and organize the purchase.

Tom Ehrhart, gave us a possible banner design:

[SORRY I COULDN’T GET THE BANNER DESIGN IMAGE TO COPY HERE}

Kerch McConlogue, suggested font changes:

I’m glad for the opportunity to to ditch the font of the original Visit http://WWW.TEAE.ORG

I believe the address line was originally set in Comic Sans, perhaps the most maligned font in history

I’d suggest something to match the “Dedicated..” tag line.. just not with all caps.

Also.. the “region of” part should probably match that font.. and be a bit smaller.

However, this also brought up a discussion again on Rootes America. At the BOD meeting at United XXXII:

Rootes America: The Rootes America initiative to promote a more corporate mindset to support all Rootes marques was discussed. A motion was made to table the Rootes America initiative and maintain the current TE/AE name until the club has a working website to advance the initiative. The motion was seconded by Eric Gibeaut. The motion as proposed was approved.

As of the last email I saw. Tom Ehrhart ended with the following:

I propose we take this to the forum and vote on whether to put the phrase “TEAE, a region of Rootes America” on the banner.

To keep things moving, it appears we have a motion on the table. This motion needs to be seconded or if it is not seconded then the motion will die.

However we still need a decision on a banner design, a banner size(s) and the number of banners needed. Remember we discussed making one for each Regional Representative and for use at the United. As we are already into the regional shows and preparing for the United I would like the BOD to come to an agreement on this matter.

Pam Jeffers


    April 29, 2014 at 4:04 am #65632
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

Just picked up on the flurry of emails about domains, Battles lost, dreams and Alp/Tgr demographics. Also the “A region of” vs something else suggestions. Everyone is correct. The RA Domain of TEAE term should be changed to what ever is agreed upon. The TEAE demographic comments is correct as well. And that is exactly the point with the RA concept. RETAIN TEAE identity, it’s bylaws, it’s culture and it’s members. Nothing changes. In fact it is embellished.

It is also agreed by many that a unified Rootes culture will best serve the marque in the future, including Tigers and Alpines. In other words a culture change is in the offing. It takes vision and future thinking to execute. Please remember this. Culture Change is slow. Very slow. It takes a generation.

The drama we have with the TEAE RA debate is not unprecedented. I believe there have been several national organizations that were launched via a strong marque club. Examples include; National Triumph Register, Austin Healey club of America, North American MGB Register to name a few. We are in the early stages in TEAE of doing the same thing.

TEAE has the leadership and operational platform to launch a consolidated Rootes organization. No one else does. As I noted elsewhere on the Forum, in an ideal arrangement, RA would be independently funded and organized and chartered as an independent national organization. But this option takes time and a committed group to make happen. It takes an effort to motivate, educate and inspire change. Promoting RA is a step to that end.

In practice, TEAE, like SAOCA , Three Spires, Talbot, etc. would be chapters, regions, affiliates, domain or any other term of RA. I do not care for domain because it sounds so domineering. And one doesn’t start an organization like this by trying to dominate anyone.

So back to what term to use for the “TEAE a XXX of RA”! Technically, Region, Chapter, Affiliate, member, Associate are all valid terms. The intent is to emphasize RA as a national organization by having other clubs retain their ID while having a hierarchical relationship for all things national.

So if I have to pick a phrase, and region is not acceptable, how’bout “affiliate of ” . But honestly, any rational adjective would be acceptable.

Let’s get past this so we can start building a RA organization.


•             April 29, 2014 at 2:04 pm #65633
 Bob & Judy Sharkey

I second Tom’s motion.

Judy


•             April 30, 2014 at 10:28 pm #65634
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Tom Ehrhart and Judy Sharkey,

Just to make sure I have it correct, Tom would you restate your proposal and the Judy would you again second it?

Then I can set up the BOD vote.

Thanks,

Pam

•             May 1, 2014 at 2:49 am #65639
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I propose a 2×10 banner design replicating the logo presented as the mast head at http://www.rootesamerica.org. Eliminate the phrase “a domain of” and incorporate the phrase “Dedicated to the preservation, restoration and enjoyment of all Rootes Group Vehicles” under the Rootes America logo.

•             May 1, 2014 at 1:31 pm #65640
 Bob & Judy Sharkey

I second the motion.

Judy

•             May 5, 2014 at 1:04 pm #65645
 calvert

Has the promised write up for Rootes America been provided? If so, please let me know where to find it.

We are supposed to be buying club banners. Rootes America exists in name only and that name (on the internet) was purchased by TEAE. I am not for or against Rootes America at this point since it is undefined.

The phrase “domain” is not a connotation of dominance to me, it is just a term for the internet address structure. However, I believe the anti TEAE contingent do not see that in a positive light.

Our club is TE/AE. If a Rootes America organization is to be established, let the proponents of that concept use their resources for that purpose.

TEAE resources should be used to strengthen and promote TEAE. Examples are Judy’s efforts in developing prestigious awards for car models other than Alpines and Tigers and making sure that the existing awards are as inclusive as possible.

I am opposed to putting Rootes America on TEAE banners.

I am all for encouraging owners of all Rootes cars to participate in TEAE activities. TEAE clearly states the same in the Articles of Incorporation and our current logos on roster, website and newsletter. We should use our resources to that end and not on a name change or an attempt to establish an American council of clubs, regions or whatever.

Tom Calvert

•             May 5, 2014 at 7:28 pm #65646
 James Lindner

Hi All

I must agree with Tom C. Our new banners should reflect only what exists today…Tigers East/Alpines East.

Rootes America is a noble vision…one that might be achieved. Once we understand what exactly it will be and determine if other Rootes clubs might embrace a similar vision, we can then decide whether to affiliate our club with it…something which I personally believe should involve a vote of the general membership.

In the meantime, I am against placing the Rootes America name/logo on the club banners currently being considered.

Jim Lindner

•             May 6, 2014 at 2:11 pm #65647
 John & Laurie Logan Jr.

I think we should wait on placing Rootesamerica on anything until it becomes something more substantial. Maybe our membership should have the opportunity to vote on the idea? Maybe it should be a separate project that does not use club funds or labor. Have other clubs shone an interest in belonging to a national club? I can’t vote but I would vote to wait. Wasn’t this tabled at St. Micheals by the Bod?

John

•             May 8, 2014 at 5:39 am #65649
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

The banner is driving this discussion. It’s a great deal breaker. Either we do Rootes America or not. If it is not put on the banner now, forget about RA forever. I can live with it either way. Herewith are my comments, proposal, and plan.

I believe there is a general consensus that there is merit in doing something to unify the Rootes marque. The Rootes marque is too fractured. Our marque is too small for separate Alpine club, three Tiger clubs and a variety of smaller marques like IMP, Talbot, Minx, Hillman, not to mention real orphans like Commer’s. Some argue that Tigers and Alpines are demographically the largest count of club membership and therefore we should not change the name to distract from that. This same debate was going on years ago with the Big and Little Healeys. They got over it and now have a national organization while allowing recognition of both. We need to do the same. For the logical pragmatists in the group, since we have more Tiger/Alpine members in TEAE, I propose we retain the TEAE name forever and it fits in the RA national organization like others.

As I noted before, in an ideal world RA would start as it’s own entity and TEAE would be, well, TEAE. We started SUNI years ago to be a platform for a united marque. Instead it got hijacked by one person. There is no SUNI organization. The point is this. If we believe in a national organizational, we will have to drive it. TEAE’s historical leadership infrastructure does not allow for a RA ONLY independent business plan implementation. It does not have the energies poured into establishing SUNI. Therefore, I propose we use the existing TEAE infrastructure (website, newsletter, database, leadership), its bylaws as is and the RA branding as a “soft” method to continue developing unity and strength in the marque.

The RA branding helps fuel the debate, cultivate other clubs interests and their leaders to engage in an on going development of a national organization. Therefore, I propose the new banner be used to perpetuate this concept and its design be similar to the Rootes America.org mast head, with the “a domain of” excluded.

An outline of a RA business plan follows.

Rootes America

A business plan outline

The purpose is to promote interest in North America Rootes/Sunbeam marques in the restoration, preservation and enjoyment of these vehicles and to promote cooperation among other Rootes/Sunbeam marque organizations, its owners and other enthusiasts. The organization is the ambassador for the Rootes/Sunbeam marques and an advocate for positive public and media recognition.

Implementation

Phase I

1. Promote and develop awareness of Rootes America concept of a national organization

A. Market RA name to create awareness, elicit debate and develop advocates.

B. Advocate a unified Tiger/Alpine national marque

C. Advocate increased exposure for smaller marque clubs or entities.

2. Continue ongoing development the TEAE organization towards a national platform

A. Operating infrastructure: (Newsletter, Membership database, Website)

B. Leadership: Decision making, promotion, budgeting focused on objective

3. Branding/Marketing

Retain TEAE name with a Rootes America theme. [The concept is used to create brand image. Analogy would be Pontiac(TEAE) GTO(RA) for it’s muscle car image. So it is with TEAE, RA defines what TEAE present leadership intends it to be]

Phase II

1. Promotion

A. Develop letter of intent with existing marque organizations or a national organization.

2. Develop an agreed organizational plan

A. BOD with representatives from each marque club

B. Establish club hierarchy and organizational structure with RA national, i.e. Regions, Affiliates, Partners or nothing

C. Financial

D. Utilizing shared resources.

E. Retain each club autonomy (name)

F. Use existing TEAE Newsletter, Membership database, Website as a platform for national organization

G. Use existing TEAE Bylaws as platform for RA Bylaws

3. Branding/Marketing

A. Continue TEAE RA theme

Phase III

RA becomes the central organization for Rootes/Sunbeam marque, public and media recognition with shared resources.

1. Promotion

A. Rootes/Sunbeam clubs use RA for national communication

B. RA is the go to for public promotion and media engagement.

2. Agreed business plan in operation

A. Shared resources integrated into a national operation.

B. TEAE Bylaws amended to reflect national organization.

C. RA Bylaws approved

D. Budget in place with funding by member clubs in place.

3. Branding/Marketing

A. Clubs retain their autonomy

B. Clubs use RA as a national platform and communication medium

C. RA

•             May 9, 2014 at 3:38 am #65650
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I need to amend my motion for banner design to; Design to be similar to the Rootes America.org mast head, with the “a domain of” excluded and adding the phrase “Dedicated to the preservation, restoration and enjoyment of all Rootes Group Vehicles”

•             May 9, 2014 at 11:14 am #65651
 calvert

TT,

Please elaborate on who the consensus consists of. Thanks for the general outline of your concept.

I would appreciate specific responses to the questions I posed above.

I commend you on your persistence, you have championed the idea for 20 or 25 years with very little buy in from other clubs.

On the lighter side, are you going to change your handle from TT to RAT?

Tom C.

•             May 9, 2014 at 4:21 pm #65652
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

I for one subscribe to the idea of Rootes America. There are many more commonalities in all the Rootes cars, than many realize. A lot of parts are interchangeable, and/or usable by others than only Tigers and Alpines. The Minxes, Sceptres, Venezias, Singers, Rapiers, etc. all share many items. Part sources, repro parts manufacturing, tech tips, for sale/wanted, recognition at concourses like Stowe British Invasion, exposure in magazines and other media, all are items which would benefit by a common organization.

Robert

•             May 11, 2014 at 8:54 pm #65654
 Fred Baum

Even if RA becomes an umbrella organization, there will still be a Tigers East/ Alpines East. Therefore, I think ($0.02) that we should end this conversation, go with the original TE/AE concept for the banners and wait to see what happens with the RA idea.

I don’t think we’re going to see RA any time soon, but let’s keep the idea alive.

F

•             May 13, 2014 at 3:04 am #65656
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

The proposed banner design was voted down. We now need another proposed design so we can still get some new banners printed.

Pam

•             May 13, 2014 at 3:25 am #65658
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I propose a banner with the TEAE script logo and the phrase “Dedicated to the preservation, restoration and enjoyment of all Rootes Group Vehicles”

•             May 13, 2014 at 12:17 pm #65663
 James Lindner

I am not a voting board member so I can not make a motion, but sticking with TT’s most recent proposal, why not use the logo as it appears on the main page of the TE/AE website. It has the TE/AE logo, the “Dedicated to…” verbiage, and the Sunbeam/Rootes badge.

Jim

•             May 13, 2014 at 12:25 pm #65664
 calvert

I suggest we use the same logo as used at the top of the newsletter mailing page (back page of the newsletter).

It incorporates the elements of TT’s current proposal and includes the replica of the Sunbeam Rootes Group badge.

Tom C.

________________________________________

Attachments:

•             May 13, 2014 at 2:45 pm #65665
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I agree.

•             May 13, 2014 at 7:50 pm #65666
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

So Tom Ehrhart, are you changing your proposal?

Pam J

•             May 13, 2014 at 9:39 pm #65667
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Also, we need to decided on what size(s) and how many we are going to order. So here is what Joe Parlanti sent before:

On 3/31/2014 4:45 PM, Joe Parlanti wrote:

I have checked into the banners and here are a couple of example prices (all banners are 13oz. vinyl, full color with grommets:

Â

2′ x 10′ (good for the top of a 10′ EZ-up) – $49

3′ x 3′ (I believe this is close to the old banner size) – $23

Â

I’ve used halpricebanners.com several times in the past and they do good work. Once we decide on the content, I can do the graphics and organize the purchase.

Pam J

•             May 13, 2014 at 11:57 pm #65669
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

My proposal is same as Tom C’s. Recommend 2 at least 2′ height, allow logo to determine effective length. Logo layout does not work well with a square banner of an size.

•             May 14, 2014 at 2:28 am #65670
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

I thought it was discussed in the conference call that we would like each Regional Representative to have a banner and then at least 2 to go the United Chairman. What do others think?

Pam J

•             May 14, 2014 at 3:01 am #65671
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I was not part of the Conf call so I do not know the outcome of banner discussion. I suggest two banners as a minimum. They can be sent to the United chair. While it is noble to give one each to a Rep, I’d would not consider until the budget is approved for such an expense. It’s cheaper to mail them around for the limited use they get.

TT

•             May 15, 2014 at 2:13 am #65672
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

With true due respect to Tom Calvert as a founding member and Jim Linder for his opinion I agree with Tom E’s vision. You all know me as a long time member. Formally I was membership director of an early club which started out about the same time as TE/ AE. When I first joined our club I liked all things about it except the name. At least it should have been alphabetical and be AE / TE. Although I have owned three Tigers I guess I have been more Alpine centric. As I have grown older I’ve learned to appreciate the whole range of vehicles that Rootes built and would like to see something in our name that would make owners of these other Rootes products feel welcome from the start if they join our group. Also I like the vision of making the connection with the other Rootes based clubs in the country. (Although I think this may be harder than it sounds.) At the least I would like to make the rest of the Rootes range feel welcome to our organization. Jim I agree that most of the vehicles in our club are either Alpines or Tigers but I’m of the “If you build it they will come” school of thought on this subject.

With regard to the banners I would just interpose some phrase like “sponsors of” or “supporters of ” Rootes America while we work to agree on some plan for our future. In other words without making it a deal breaker on the banners lets just keep the ball in motion for the time being with regard to possible future actions. It won’t hurt anything or anybody to have it on the banners.

Respectfully,

Dave Reina

•             May 16, 2014 at 2:02 am #65673
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

With true due respect to Tom Calvert as a founding member and Jim Linder for his opinion I agree with Tom E’s vision. You all know me as a long time member. Formally I was membership director of an early club which started out about the same time as TE/ AE. When I first joined our club I liked all things about it except the name. At least it should have been alphabetical and be AE / TE. Although I have owned three Tigers I guess I have been more Alpine centric. As I have grown older I’ve learned to appreciate the whole range of vehicles that Rootes built and would like to see something in our name that would make owners of these other Rootes products feel welcome from the start if they join our group. Also I like the vision of making the connection with the other Rootes based clubs in the country. (Although I think this may be harder than it sounds.) At the least I would like to make the rest of the Rootes range feel welcome to our organization. Jim I agree that most of the vehicles in our club are either Alpines or Tigers but I’m of the “If you build it they will come” school of thought on this subject.

With regard to the banners I would just interpose some phrase like “sponsors of” or “supporters of ” Rootes America while we work to agree on some plan for our future. In other words without making it a deal breaker on the banners lets just keep the ball in motion for the time being with regard to possible future actions. It won’t hurt anything or anybody to have it on the banners.

Respectfully,

Dave Reina

•             May 16, 2014 at 11:20 am #65674
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

Like David says it well: “I agree that most of the vehicles in our club are either Alpines or Tigers but I’m of the “If you build it they will come” school of thought on this subject.”

Unfortunately I had no access at the time before the voting.

I think we make a big mistake by being stuck in the old ways, and not daring to undertake something new! That’s why a lot of companies for example are now out of business.

The future will not be the same as the past, one has to stay with it, or it will become an old mans relic. I know old cloth feel good and new ones take a while to feel comfortable. Enough said, I am disappointed. Robert

•             May 30, 2014 at 1:49 pm #65679
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

At this time there have been several proposals and opinions regarding Banners. However, there has not been a second on any, except the one already voted down. I still think there is a need for new banners. Can we come to an agreement or is this topic tabled for now?

Pam

•             May 30, 2014 at 3:02 pm #65680
 Fred Baum

From my 5/11/2014 response:

[b]Even if RA becomes an umbrella organization, there will
still be a Tigers East/ Alpines East. Therefore, I think ($0.02) that we should
end this conversation, go with the original TE/AE concept for the banners and
wait to see what happens with the RA idea.

I don’t think we’re going to see RA any time soon, but let’s
keep the idea alive[/b]

.

F

•             June 3, 2014 at 2:25 am #65683
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

Tom Calvert made a motion for a banner proposal on May 13. A second is needed.

•             June 3, 2014 at 10:54 pm #65684
 Steve and Janet Towle

I’ll second the motion from Tom C. on May 13.

Tiger Towle

•             June 4, 2014 at 11:04 am #65685
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

Before voting on the current proposal I’d like to have a discussion of the banner text once more. I agree that there is no fully defined and functioning Rootes America at this time. However I and I think enough other board members agree with the spirt of the idea and would like to keep this ball in play. In fact, just having these banner discussions has stirred some of us into imagining what RA could mean to all the Rootes based clubs.

For me, I finally have begun to see a way for us and other clubs to keep our autonomy, and names, but to be linked to each other electronically under RA.

I’d like to discuss the gelling of the RA concept further, but for the moment and while we are finalizing the banners I’d like to see RA added in a more subtile and softer way. If nothing else having it on the banners may open dialogs with folks viewing the banner.

My proposal is that we of course boldly feature TE/AE on the banners, and in smaller text (but still large enough to be visible) add “supporters of Rootes America”

Sunbeam Supreme Dave

PS- I apologize but was traveling without computer when the earlier vote came up. I would have voted to include RA at that time.

•             June 5, 2014 at 4:08 am #65686
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

Dave, I thought RA was a dead topic, but your “softer” marketing approach proposal makes sense and is a good middle ground to keep the RA concept at the forefront of the marque. What do others think?

•             June 6, 2014 at 1:29 am #65687
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

As most of you will know, I am very much in favor of RootesAmerica .

There are many examples in business, and elsewhere, were no changes were made and now these companies/organizations have vanished.

I do hold TEAE dear at heart, and do not want it to go that way. Changes have to be made, if you like it or not, that’s the way the world works.

I do support to add “supporting RootesAmerica” to the banner. Why fight this and not join it, there is nothing to loose only hopefully to gain.We have to start somewhere and this effort will:

1). Not cost TEAE an arm and a leg.

2). Show others that we really embrace all of the Rootes Group cars. Many other clubs in the world have done so, like: “Rootes Club Nederland”,

“Rootes Club of Belgium”, “Rootes Group Car Club New Zealand”, “Rootes Car Club Sweden”, to name just a few.

3). Start a discussion within our club, as well as with other clubs, to unite our efforts. (SAOCA already has our UNITED logo right at the top of

their website!) Realistically we are all just too small to do it alll, and do it well. Combining efforts utilize the combined talents and finances,

in a much better way.

4). We can start a publicity campaign nationally under this banner.

5). It does not harm anything we are doing at present.

Robert

•             June 6, 2014 at 2:07 pm #65688
 Fred Baum

This discussion started in April and has actually gone nowhere in getting new banners.

So, why not get banners made both ways — TE/AE and RA.

The cost is so low that we can afford to do this. This will also prepare us for the future (RA) as well as keep the TE/AE name alive for the present and the future.

Now all you need to discuss is what to put on the banners, and that has already been discussed ad nauseum.

If this discussion keeps up there will not be any banners for the United or any other event.

F

•             June 6, 2014 at 7:59 pm #65689
 Bob & Judy Sharkey

I definitely agree with Dave. The soft approach is good. There is no reason to spend the extra money on two sets of banners. I will not take up your time repeating all the sound reasons already set forth by Robert, Steve, Dave and Tom. Include RA now and get busy making Rootes America a reality. Now the question is how to make the wording work on the banners.

Judy

•             June 7, 2014 at 2:06 pm #65690
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

“TEAE supporting RootesAmerica”. We had a design almost like that by TT !! 

Robert

•             June 8, 2014 at 11:47 am #65691
 calvert

Dave’s suggested wording is getting closer to acceptable by me. But as Robert pointed out that brings us right back to where this started. At this point Rootes America is not well enough defined for me personally to say if it is supported or sponsored.

I suggest that we move ahead with the design proposed in my motion, seconded by Steve, which TT said he supports. We need to get some banners in hand.

I also suggest that the proponents of Rootes America write an article for the club newsletter, open a topic on the general membership forum and invite the general membership to join in the discussion so that we can get input from the members at large instead of only kicking it around amongst those with access to the official business forum.

Taking that action will help mature the idea/concept and provide a reference document for those not passionately involved.

If the idea develops a broader base of support, we can purchase additional banners as appropriate.

Tom Calvert

•             June 9, 2014 at 4:22 am #65692
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

At this point in the process we are in debate on the motion to vote on banners w/o RA.

I did say I would support a vote on the banner without RA since the previous vote ruled out the RA inclusion. It was a pragmatic decision on my part based on the fact that it was previously voted down and we need banners. However, with the renewed interest and awareness by others in the value of RA, I have no recourse but to rescind my support for a vote to make banners w/o RA.

Tom, I believe you are missing the point by not putting RA on banner now. The purpose of the RA on the banners now is to help drive what you suggest be done. It’s called marketing. I agree, we should open the discussion on the public forum and even the newsletter. It might actually get more to visits the TEAE site. Nothing like a little controversy to get attention. The banner is the turning point on this topic. It will help us mature the concept.

Let me be the first to say I’d love to write a business plan that incorporates the various America clubs as part of a vested national organization. But to even use that term presently would incite and polarize others. Our marque is not ready for that formal approach. My proposal is simply to continue the functional operation of our club as a true ALL Rootes club with the talent and resources we presently have. Continue embellishing all Rootes vehicles, Tigers, Alpines to Commer’s. Decisions are based on an RA bias. Our organization will work with and provide services to others and be part of their process and we will part of theirs. Examples include, newsletter, membership database, website, Paypal, BOD, etc.

Going back in time. In a previous proposal. I originally proposed we change TEAE to another generic name like Sunbeams United. We have ended up with RA which is quite appropriate. We are at this point because there was a strong opposition to change the clubs name. So, a compromise has been suggested. Presently it is TEAE supports RA? Whatever the phraseology, It is a concession to a complete name change which requires a bylaws amendment. Considering this banner debacle, it might have been easier to propose a bylaws change.

Our United’s have been the perennial live forum for all things TEAE and the marque in general. For this reason, I think it is imperative we have new banners in time for the United this year. And RA should be included.

Therefore, I ask the that Tom C amend the present proposal to include the “Supports RA” statement.

A future name change will better represent our mission objective to promote interest in the Sunbeam marque and we can still focus on the T&A interests. “The purpose is to promote interest in the Sunbeam Marque in general, and the Tiger/Alpine segment in particular”,

•             June 9, 2014 at 2:22 pm #65693
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

quote calvert:

Dave’s suggested wording is getting closer to acceptable by me.

Hi Tom- A bunch of us are hoping you will revise your banner proposal to include some mention of Rootes America. Although it still is an nebulous thing there is a spirt to the idea that we want to incorporate. In my current understanding of the RA concept, there is no name change proposal to our club. There is more I’d like to write on the subject but for now I want to make clear that point.

Regards,

Dave

•             June 17, 2014 at 3:11 am #65705
 calvert

Folks, with all due respect, repetition of the same reasons by the same vocal people does not convince me to change my proposal or thinking.

The banners should reflect reality.

I want to reiterate that I am neither for or against RA at this point. Various incantations of the RA concept have been put forth several times over several decades without gaining traction. I agree marketing is needed for the concept to succeed. I think articulating the concept in a broader forum and soliciting broad membership input/support is the best marketing strategy. A soft statement on the banners is not the level of marketing required to have the concept gain wide acceptance. The banners are only seen by a small segment of the general Rootes population.

It has been pointed out several times that the banners are relatively inexpensive. We should move forward with the proposal on the table and acquire revised banners when broader support for RA is established.

Tom Calvert

•             June 17, 2014 at 1:06 pm #65706
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

At this time we have a motion and a second to that motion with much discussion. I will now set up the vote and encourage all 7 of our Board of Directors to vote. I will send an e-mail to them since I know I don’t always receive notifications from the forum. We will see where we are after the vote and proceed from there.

I think any further discussion of RA should continue under the RA topic already set up in this section. It then should be presented to the general membership on the general forum, in the newsletter and at the United.

Pam

•             June 25, 2014 at 1:57 am #65711
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

The banner design was not approved. Should we table this until we meet at the United in MI?

Pam

•             June 25, 2014 at 1:20 pm #65714
 Steve and Janet Towle

Please see my comment in the voting topic.

Steve

•             June 25, 2014 at 7:13 pm #65720
 Steve and Janet Towle

I do not believe this should be tabled until the United for several reasons: (1)This has dragged out long enough; (2)At any given United we do not have all 7 board members present; (3) Nor do we have a good cross-section representation of the TE/AE members. It is far too easy to “stack the deck” for certain topics/points of view.

Steve

•             June 26, 2014 at 3:38 am #65723
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

I thought I posted this several days ago but it didn’t show up on the forum. Let me try again. I would like to make a motion to go ahead with the banners with the major graphic element being our TE/AE name and in a smaller font the text “Supporters of Rootes America”

Regards,

Venezia Dave

•             June 26, 2014 at 2:43 pm #65724
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Dave

You did post, but it was under the BOD vote on the banner. To avoid any confusion, please be very specific with your design.

do you mean:

1. TE/AE Supporters of Rootes America

2.Tigers East/Alpines East Supporters of Rootes America

3.The Tigers East Alpines East logo as on the back of the Rootes Review with Supporters of Rootes America

4. Something else

Thanks for the clarification.

Pam

•             June 26, 2014 at 3:35 pm #65725
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi Pam,

I will post an image later today.

Dave

•             July 22, 2014 at 6:44 pm #65744
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

This 3rd vote on a banner has passed 5 votes to 1.

Joe P., now that I think we know what we want on the banner and the size, can you again check what the pricing will be and what information and in what format that information needs to be in so we can order the banners.

Thanks,

TEAE toDo list

Date posted here does not necessarily match the date minutes were submitted.

april 13 2008
curt hoffman

I have compiled what I believe to be the club’s work list. I have included, as near as I can determine from the various spots on the forum, an update for each. Some are done, some are being worked, and some appear to be lost in space.

My recommendation:
Each owner supply an update to the area you own on this site. I will compile an update once I hear from most of you.
At the next BOD meeting make a decision on the key items-
– where to spend the money
– any remaining elections process items
– artwork approval
– whether to buy name tags
– others

Curt

1. Election process revision to ensure proper elections – A. DiBattista

2. Name recognition (banners, paid advertising, etc.) ?

3. Marque Business plan T. Ehrhart

4. Name Tags F. Baum

5. Banners (taken from #2 above) T. Ehrhart

6. Review and refine draft of WJS award ?

7. Web Host Job description Jim D’Amelio

8. Publicity initiative Dave Kellogg

9. United photo DVD T. Ehrhart

10. How to spend our money – ?

Status as near as I can tell from the variety of locations things are discussed:

1. Elections process

Combined October/November edition. Then we don’t have to include it in a December issue which would be out too late to satisfy the by-laws. This gives editor time to feature the United while it’s still fresh in members’ minds and allow for an early profile/ballot edition. This could also, depending on timing, be placed in the December issue.

This would alleviate any conflict with proper accounting and membership issues, since we have done the combined issue before.

Profiles could be deadlined at October 15. Profiles not received would be given general description. That is to report the name of the candidate and where they live (city and state).

I got away from the backside address thing on the ballot because it took up a page of valuable space. Giving the members the three ways to vote (electronic, fax, snail mail) should allow everyone at least one method by which to cast their ballot.

I suggest that we do a special email to all the Electronic RR recipients containing the ballot after we publish it in the RR. We can reference the bios in the RR they get electronically. I think this additional step will get more interest from the ERR folks where not having a paper ballot would be less motivation to vote.

2. Name recognition (banners, paid advertising, etc.) ?

Other than for the banners I can not find an owner for this or what it really means. We will need someone to speak up on this.

3. Marque Business plan T. Ehrhart

Still on burner. Tom states still working but is not on original track.

4. Name Tags F. Baum

Two versions of artwork were proposed with some critique of both. No further discussion. General agreement to buy for list of officers and BOD but some controversy. Was to be put to vote by Anthony. Needs vote on artwork and whether to do at all.

5. Banners (taken from #2 above) T. Ehrhart

Agreement to make new banners for use at events. Last status was artwork was being developed by a vendor and getting ready. Not sure if artwork for banners was to be same as for name tags which has not yet been decided. BOD approved artwork. Labor intensive Vector Artwork being generated

6. Review and refine draft of WJS award ? C. Hoffman did some work in this area and views this as done.

Not sure what this really means. I published criteria for use in United and received no other input so I am assuming criteria is set. I have given criteria to Joe for United this year. Here is what I pulled off forum.

Wally Swift award criteria:
A south Jersey trophy shop designed the Wally Swift Memorial plaque and has the artwork on file. Judy Sharkey volunteered to keep record of the annual winners and secure the plaques as needed.

Adopted by TEAE BOD, 2006

1) The award is presented at each United to the owner of the car or cars who does the best in the Popular Vote and the Autocross, combined

2) He/She must own the car(s) that is in the Popular Vote and must own and drive the car(s) in the autocross. The car(s) receiving the Popular Votes and car(s) being Autocrossed does not have to be the same car.

3) The person must have been a member of TE/AE prior to the participation in the Autocross or the Popular Vote, whichever is held first.

4) Eligible Alpines and Tigers shall possess the original engine type, i.e. Alpines: Rootes four cylinder engines, Tigers: Small block Ford Engine. Modifications are acceptable.

5) The award is based on the combined finishing positions in the Popular Vote and Autocross events, using the finishing position (e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4…) as the points assigned. The award goes to the person with the lowest total points. In the Popular Vote, the points will be determined by where the car ranks in the Most Popular Alpine or Most Popular Tiger vote. In the Autocross, it will be based on the overall finishing position of the car in the Autocross (not by class).

6) Example: An Alpine that the person owns gets third place in the Most Popular Alpine vote. This would be three points. The person drives a Tiger that he owns to the fourth fastest overall time in the Autocross. This would be four points. His point total for the Wally Swift Award would be 7 points.

7) If there is a tie in points, the award goes to the fastest autocross time. If there is no one meeting these criteria, the award is not made for that year.

The award is open to the owners of Tigers and Alpines only. Tigers must have a Ford engine based on the 260-289-302 small block and Alpines must have an Alpine engine. No conversions are eligible. A person must participate in both the Autocross and the Popular Vote to be eligible.

9) There will be a perpetual trophy and a personal trophy given to the winner. There will be one perpetual trophy that has a plaque containing all previous winners’ names and will pass from winner-to-winner at each United. The personal trophy will remain with the winner.

10) Any criteria not covered here will be the decision of the Board and that decision will add to these criteria for future awards.

7. Web Host Job description Jim D’Amelio

No status given that I can find. Two different versions of who owns- one is Anthony DiBattista would contact Jim Morrison for a job description to provide to the newsletter editor for publishing. Not sure if this is a typo given the other place I could find stated J. D’Amelio owns. In any case, no status anywhere I could find.l

8. Publicity initiative Dave Kellogg
No status anywhere on forum.

9. United photo DVD T. Ehrhart
I believe this is now done

10. How to spend our money – ?

After a plethora of comments on spending recommending everything from doing nothing to buying a Lexus for all members, this is the final reco from Anthony.

) Get quality cases for the Keith Porter awards and get the awards themselves returned to like new condition to show respect for Keith and the recipient.
2) By our new banners
3) Advertise in a national car enthusiast’s magazine so that we appeal to other car buffs and expose our unique interests to others.
4) Name badges for the officers, BOD, and the Regional Representatives. Did we not vote on this very issue at the United XXVII BOD meeting?
5) Keep the rest of the cash in the bank for future asset allocations / bad times.

In addition this was a final note on possibility for money. No further action taken since this comment was made.

I propose that we set the ERR dues equal to the cost of the mailed RR price of $33 minus the costs savings we get by not having to print and mail them. The best info I have says it is about $.60 per issue to mail and $.25 per issue or print (the marginal cost per issue). So $.85 per issue total. Let’s say we do 11 issues per year and that gives us $9.35 per year. So I would propose a $24 per year rate for the ERR folks. This larger difference (than the current $3) between the RR and the ERR price would encourage more folks to change over and maybe a few more to join in the first place. We have always said we wanted to have more folks do the ERR and this is a way to do it that costs us nothing.


Tom  Ehrhart
4/17/08

Curt, First, thanks for such a comprehensive overview of club action items. They concur with my notes and are as I remember them. And your observations of progress appear to be right on too, little that there is. I concur with your recommendations for ERR. Thanks too for telling me (us) to check in here. I plead guilty for not being on attentive on line.

Here is a status report for the TT action items.

2. Name recognition.
No progress. This could be merged with Item # 3 Marque Business Plan.

3. Marque Business Plan.
I have not made sufficient progress to present anything yet.

5. Banners
The design is as you noted, a derivative of the proposed name badge presented at the last United. Fred was the primary designer. We just received notice this week from the vendor that banners can be available for the BASH. You were correct in noting there was controversy about design. This design was agreed on at the last United for the name badge and possible use for a banner. It’s rather generic and promotes TEAE and its website. with the general consensus that we really do need banners, Fred and I went ahead with this project. I can’t send banner illustratin because I have dial up Intermittent Internet

6 WJS award. Your WJS recommendations are what we placed with the trophy at the last United, I believe. Might want to confirm with Carl Moon who presently has trophy.

7 Web host. My notes state Jim D. was asked to draft a description which could be used to recruit a successor. Anthony was going to consult with Jim M for assistance. I am not aware of any progress either.

8. David Kellogg has been making PR overtures as of late however I am not aware of any results.

9. DVD’s are out and done. Extras made are for sale. $9.00

10. How to spend $
1. Cases for KP awards. Carl Moon and I have talked about working on this. I have identified a case. I’ll make it an action item for our discussion at the BASH.
4. We agreed to make name badges for officers/BOD/Reps to be warn at United. The problem was what type badge. Fred and TT were to work out options. Both Fred and I have come up with types of badges but have not resolved a final recommendation.