Replacement banners

Copied from Forum posts of these dates

5-6-2014

Tom Ehrhart has proposed a 2×10 banner design replicating the logo presented as the mast head at http://www.rootesamerica.org. Eliminate the phrase “a domain of” and incorporate the phrase “Dedicated to the preservation, restoration and enjoyment of all Rootes Group Vehicles” under the Rootes America logo. This was seconded by Judy Sharkey.

Not passed


June 17, 2014

Here is the motion:

I suggest we use the same logo as used at the top of the newsletter mailing page (back page of the newsletter).

It incorporates the elements of TT’s current proposal and includes the replica of the Sunbeam Rootes Group badge.

Tom C

Not approved


6/25/14

Hi Pam,
I’d like to go ahead with one more proposal for a vote.
I would like to make a proposal to word the banner “TE/AE, supporters of Rootes America”. The “supporters of Rootes America” can be in a smaller font with the main banner emphasis on our club name.
Would someone care to second the proposal.

Dave


I do not believe this should be tabled until the United for several reasons: (1)This has dragged out long enough; (2)At any given United we do not have all 7 board members present; (3) Nor do we have a good cross-section representation of the TE/AE members. It is far too easy to “stack the deck” for certain topics/points of view.

Steve


June 25, 2014

Dave,

Let me get this straight, you want to use TE/AE on the banner and not Tigers East/ Alpines East? If this is correct we are really diminishing the club’s identity. So please be very specific in your motion. When we have another vote I hope it can be one that can be agreed upon.

Steve,

You make very valid points. With some of us going to SUNI and Tiger 50 in the next few days, I don’t see a timely conclusion. I will wait to see what happens. Maybe a conference call with those BOD not attending the United at the time of the BOD meeting should be considered. The BOD meeting is planned for 3-5PM EST on Friday September 12th.

Pam


July 15, 2014

My motion is to have our club logo on the banner and to include the line “Supporting Rootes America”

Dave

Hi Eric,

Yes, you are right to add the internet addresses. I agree they should be on the banner.

Dave

I second the motion to proceed with the second banner design submitted by Dave Reina and to include the internet addresses of TE/AE and Rootes America on it.


Eric Gibeaut

You will have 7 days to cast your vote.

Pam J


July 22 2014

This 3rd vote on a banner has passed 5 votes to 1.

Joe, now that I think we know what we want on the banner and the size, can you again check what the pricing will be and what information and in what format that information needs to be in so we can order the banners.

Thanks, Pam

Banner Conversation

Date posted here does not necessarily match the date minutes were submitted.

This is the copied and pasted conversation about the new banners from the old forum. PDF of that document is here.

Collected 10/21/2020 by Kerch McConlogue before deleting the original in the private board forum at TEAE.org


April 2, 2014 at 9:47 pm #58143
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

The need for new club banners was discussed. The original club banners are held by Tom Ehrhart and are in very poor condition. Banners made and used for the 2008 United were never retrieved after the event. Joe Parlanti advised he knows of a company—Half Price Banners—that has very reasonable prices. Ensuing discussion determined the cost from this company was worthy of further consideration. Joe Parlanti will check with the company in the next 2 weeks and will get prices for various size banners. Once obtained, additional action can be taken.

Joe Parlanti have you checked with Half Price Banners for sizes and prices?

I have checked into the banners and here are a couple of example prices (all banners are 13oz. vinyl, full color with grommets:

2′ x 10′ (good for the top of a 10′ EZ-up) – $49

3′ x 3′ (I believe this is close to the old banner size) – $23

I’ve used halpricebanners.com several times in the past and they do good work. Once we decide on the content, I can do the graphics and organize the purchase.

Thanks,

JVP

Tom Ehrhart do you actually have club banners in your possession?

I have one banner. It’s an old “Alpines East” banner. Depsite Pat Johnson promise to return banners and Curt Bowlands offer to Pat in writing to pay shipping, we do not have the banners. We do need to go through with purchase of new banners in time for this year’s United. We also need to develop an agreed upon display. We have had many iterations of logos and branding ID’s (TEAE & RA) and sloagons like “Preservation of Rootes vehicles’…..” We need to use this opportunty to state who we are now and the future. TT


April 5, 2014 at 3:19 pm #65587
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

I need feedback from everyone on what we want on these banners.

What logo(s) do we want to use? Who has the best file on them?

What wording do we want to use?

What size should the banners be?

How many banners do we need? Remember it was discussed to have one for each Regional Representative to use at their regional events.

Pam


  April 27, 2014 at 10:58 pm #65626
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Hi all,

I’ve been on the road again, but have been following the emails regarding new banners for our club.

Joe Parlanti, gave us some sizes and prices:

I have checked into the banners and here are a couple of example prices (all banners are 13oz. vinyl, full color with grommets:

2′ x 10′ (good for the top of a 10′ EZ-up) – $49

3′ x 3′ (I believe this is close to the old banner size) – $23

I’ve used halpricebanners.com several times in the past and they do good work. Once we decide on the content, I can do the graphics and organize the purchase.

Tom Ehrhart, gave us a possible banner design:

[SORRY I COULDN’T GET THE BANNER DESIGN IMAGE TO COPY HERE}

Kerch McConlogue, suggested font changes:

I’m glad for the opportunity to to ditch the font of the original Visit http://WWW.TEAE.ORG

I believe the address line was originally set in Comic Sans, perhaps the most maligned font in history

I’d suggest something to match the “Dedicated..” tag line.. just not with all caps.

Also.. the “region of” part should probably match that font.. and be a bit smaller.

However, this also brought up a discussion again on Rootes America. At the BOD meeting at United XXXII:

Rootes America: The Rootes America initiative to promote a more corporate mindset to support all Rootes marques was discussed. A motion was made to table the Rootes America initiative and maintain the current TE/AE name until the club has a working website to advance the initiative. The motion was seconded by Eric Gibeaut. The motion as proposed was approved.

As of the last email I saw. Tom Ehrhart ended with the following:

I propose we take this to the forum and vote on whether to put the phrase “TEAE, a region of Rootes America” on the banner.

To keep things moving, it appears we have a motion on the table. This motion needs to be seconded or if it is not seconded then the motion will die.

However we still need a decision on a banner design, a banner size(s) and the number of banners needed. Remember we discussed making one for each Regional Representative and for use at the United. As we are already into the regional shows and preparing for the United I would like the BOD to come to an agreement on this matter.

Pam Jeffers


    April 29, 2014 at 4:04 am #65632
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

Just picked up on the flurry of emails about domains, Battles lost, dreams and Alp/Tgr demographics. Also the “A region of” vs something else suggestions. Everyone is correct. The RA Domain of TEAE term should be changed to what ever is agreed upon. The TEAE demographic comments is correct as well. And that is exactly the point with the RA concept. RETAIN TEAE identity, it’s bylaws, it’s culture and it’s members. Nothing changes. In fact it is embellished.

It is also agreed by many that a unified Rootes culture will best serve the marque in the future, including Tigers and Alpines. In other words a culture change is in the offing. It takes vision and future thinking to execute. Please remember this. Culture Change is slow. Very slow. It takes a generation.

The drama we have with the TEAE RA debate is not unprecedented. I believe there have been several national organizations that were launched via a strong marque club. Examples include; National Triumph Register, Austin Healey club of America, North American MGB Register to name a few. We are in the early stages in TEAE of doing the same thing.

TEAE has the leadership and operational platform to launch a consolidated Rootes organization. No one else does. As I noted elsewhere on the Forum, in an ideal arrangement, RA would be independently funded and organized and chartered as an independent national organization. But this option takes time and a committed group to make happen. It takes an effort to motivate, educate and inspire change. Promoting RA is a step to that end.

In practice, TEAE, like SAOCA , Three Spires, Talbot, etc. would be chapters, regions, affiliates, domain or any other term of RA. I do not care for domain because it sounds so domineering. And one doesn’t start an organization like this by trying to dominate anyone.

So back to what term to use for the “TEAE a XXX of RA”! Technically, Region, Chapter, Affiliate, member, Associate are all valid terms. The intent is to emphasize RA as a national organization by having other clubs retain their ID while having a hierarchical relationship for all things national.

So if I have to pick a phrase, and region is not acceptable, how’bout “affiliate of ” . But honestly, any rational adjective would be acceptable.

Let’s get past this so we can start building a RA organization.


•             April 29, 2014 at 2:04 pm #65633
 Bob & Judy Sharkey

I second Tom’s motion.

Judy


•             April 30, 2014 at 10:28 pm #65634
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Tom Ehrhart and Judy Sharkey,

Just to make sure I have it correct, Tom would you restate your proposal and the Judy would you again second it?

Then I can set up the BOD vote.

Thanks,

Pam


•             May 1, 2014 at 2:49 am #65639
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I propose a 2×10 banner design replicating the logo presented as the mast head at http://www.rootesamerica.org. Eliminate the phrase “a domain of” and incorporate the phrase “Dedicated to the preservation, restoration and enjoyment of all Rootes Group Vehicles” under the Rootes America logo.


•             May 1, 2014 at 1:31 pm #65640
 Bob & Judy Sharkey

I second the motion.

Judy


•             May 5, 2014 at 1:04 pm #65645
 calvert

Has the promised write up for Rootes America been provided? If so, please let me know where to find it.

We are supposed to be buying club banners. Rootes America exists in name only and that name (on the internet) was purchased by TEAE. I am not for or against Rootes America at this point since it is undefined.

The phrase “domain” is not a connotation of dominance to me, it is just a term for the internet address structure. However, I believe the anti TEAE contingent do not see that in a positive light.

Our club is TE/AE. If a Rootes America organization is to be established, let the proponents of that concept use their resources for that purpose.

TEAE resources should be used to strengthen and promote TEAE. Examples are Judy’s efforts in developing prestigious awards for car models other than Alpines and Tigers and making sure that the existing awards are as inclusive as possible.

I am opposed to putting Rootes America on TEAE banners.

I am all for encouraging owners of all Rootes cars to participate in TEAE activities. TEAE clearly states the same in the Articles of Incorporation and our current logos on roster, website and newsletter. We should use our resources to that end and not on a name change or an attempt to establish an American council of clubs, regions or whatever.

Tom Calvert


•             May 5, 2014 at 7:28 pm #65646
 James Lindner

Hi All

I must agree with Tom C. Our new banners should reflect only what exists today…Tigers East/Alpines East.

Rootes America is a noble vision…one that might be achieved. Once we understand what exactly it will be and determine if other Rootes clubs might embrace a similar vision, we can then decide whether to affiliate our club with it…something which I personally believe should involve a vote of the general membership.

In the meantime, I am against placing the Rootes America name/logo on the club banners currently being considered.

Jim Lindner


•             May 6, 2014 at 2:11 pm #65647
 John & Laurie Logan Jr.

I think we should wait on placing Rootesamerica on anything until it becomes something more substantial. Maybe our membership should have the opportunity to vote on the idea? Maybe it should be a separate project that does not use club funds or labor. Have other clubs shone an interest in belonging to a national club? I can’t vote but I would vote to wait. Wasn’t this tabled at St. Micheals by the Bod?

John


•             May 8, 2014 at 5:39 am #65649
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

The banner is driving this discussion. It’s a great deal breaker. Either we do Rootes America or not. If it is not put on the banner now, forget about RA forever. I can live with it either way. Herewith are my comments, proposal, and plan.

I believe there is a general consensus that there is merit in doing something to unify the Rootes marque. The Rootes marque is too fractured. Our marque is too small for separate Alpine club, three Tiger clubs and a variety of smaller marques like IMP, Talbot, Minx, Hillman, not to mention real orphans like Commer’s. Some argue that Tigers and Alpines are demographically the largest count of club membership and therefore we should not change the name to distract from that. This same debate was going on years ago with the Big and Little Healeys. They got over it and now have a national organization while allowing recognition of both. We need to do the same. For the logical pragmatists in the group, since we have more Tiger/Alpine members in TEAE, I propose we retain the TEAE name forever and it fits in the RA national organization like others.

As I noted before, in an ideal world RA would start as it’s own entity and TEAE would be, well, TEAE. We started SUNI years ago to be a platform for a united marque. Instead it got hijacked by one person. There is no SUNI organization. The point is this. If we believe in a national organizational, we will have to drive it. TEAE’s historical leadership infrastructure does not allow for a RA ONLY independent business plan implementation. It does not have the energies poured into establishing SUNI. Therefore, I propose we use the existing TEAE infrastructure (website, newsletter, database, leadership), its bylaws as is and the RA branding as a “soft” method to continue developing unity and strength in the marque.

The RA branding helps fuel the debate, cultivate other clubs interests and their leaders to engage in an on going development of a national organization. Therefore, I propose the new banner be used to perpetuate this concept and its design be similar to the Rootes America.org mast head, with the “a domain of” excluded.

An outline of a RA business plan follows.

Rootes America

A business plan outline

The purpose is to promote interest in North America Rootes/Sunbeam marques in the restoration, preservation and enjoyment of these vehicles and to promote cooperation among other Rootes/Sunbeam marque organizations, its owners and other enthusiasts. The organization is the ambassador for the Rootes/Sunbeam marques and an advocate for positive public and media recognition.

Implementation

Phase I

1. Promote and develop awareness of Rootes America concept of a national organization

A. Market RA name to create awareness, elicit debate and develop advocates.

B. Advocate a unified Tiger/Alpine national marque

C. Advocate increased exposure for smaller marque clubs or entities.

2. Continue ongoing development the TEAE organization towards a national platform

A. Operating infrastructure: (Newsletter, Membership database, Website)

B. Leadership: Decision making, promotion, budgeting focused on objective

3. Branding/Marketing

Retain TEAE name with a Rootes America theme. [The concept is used to create brand image. Analogy would be Pontiac(TEAE) GTO(RA) for it’s muscle car image. So it is with TEAE, RA defines what TEAE present leadership intends it to be]

Phase II

1. Promotion

A. Develop letter of intent with existing marque organizations or a national organization.

2. Develop an agreed organizational plan

A. BOD with representatives from each marque club

B. Establish club hierarchy and organizational structure with RA national, i.e. Regions, Affiliates, Partners or nothing

C. Financial

D. Utilizing shared resources.

E. Retain each club autonomy (name)

F. Use existing TEAE Newsletter, Membership database, Website as a platform for national organization

G. Use existing TEAE Bylaws as platform for RA Bylaws

3. Branding/Marketing

A. Continue TEAE RA theme

Phase III

RA becomes the central organization for Rootes/Sunbeam marque, public and media recognition with shared resources.

1. Promotion

A. Rootes/Sunbeam clubs use RA for national communication

B. RA is the go to for public promotion and media engagement.

2. Agreed business plan in operation

A. Shared resources integrated into a national operation.

B. TEAE Bylaws amended to reflect national organization.

C. RA Bylaws approved

D. Budget in place with funding by member clubs in place.

3. Branding/Marketing

A. Clubs retain their autonomy

B. Clubs use RA as a national platform and communication medium

C. RA


•             May 9, 2014 at 3:38 am #65650
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I need to amend my motion for banner design to; Design to be similar to the Rootes America.org mast head, with the “a domain of” excluded and adding the phrase “Dedicated to the preservation, restoration and enjoyment of all Rootes Group Vehicles”


•             May 9, 2014 at 11:14 am #65651
 calvert

TT,

Please elaborate on who the consensus consists of. Thanks for the general outline of your concept.

I would appreciate specific responses to the questions I posed above.

I commend you on your persistence, you have championed the idea for 20 or 25 years with very little buy in from other clubs.

On the lighter side, are you going to change your handle from TT to RAT?

Tom C.


•             May 9, 2014 at 4:21 pm #65652
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

I for one subscribe to the idea of Rootes America. There are many more commonalities in all the Rootes cars, than many realize. A lot of parts are interchangeable, and/or usable by others than only Tigers and Alpines. The Minxes, Sceptres, Venezias, Singers, Rapiers, etc. all share many items. Part sources, repro parts manufacturing, tech tips, for sale/wanted, recognition at concourses like Stowe British Invasion, exposure in magazines and other media, all are items which would benefit by a common organization.

Robert


•             May 11, 2014 at 8:54 pm #65654
 Fred Baum

Even if RA becomes an umbrella organization, there will still be a Tigers East/ Alpines East. Therefore, I think ($0.02) that we should end this conversation, go with the original TE/AE concept for the banners and wait to see what happens with the RA idea.

I don’t think we’re going to see RA any time soon, but let’s keep the idea alive.

F


•             May 13, 2014 at 3:04 am #65656
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

The proposed banner design was voted down. We now need another proposed design so we can still get some new banners printed.

Pam


•             May 13, 2014 at 3:25 am #65658
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I propose a banner with the TEAE script logo and the phrase “Dedicated to the preservation, restoration and enjoyment of all Rootes Group Vehicles”


•             May 13, 2014 at 12:17 pm #65663
 James Lindner

I am not a voting board member so I can not make a motion, but sticking with TT’s most recent proposal, why not use the logo as it appears on the main page of the TE/AE website. It has the TE/AE logo, the “Dedicated to…” verbiage, and the Sunbeam/Rootes badge.

Jim


•             May 13, 2014 at 12:25 pm #65664
 calvert

I suggest we use the same logo as used at the top of the newsletter mailing page (back page of the newsletter).

It incorporates the elements of TT’s current proposal and includes the replica of the Sunbeam Rootes Group badge.

Tom C.

________________________________________

Attachments:


•             May 13, 2014 at 2:45 pm #65665
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I agree.


•             May 13, 2014 at 7:50 pm #65666
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

So Tom Ehrhart, are you changing your proposal?

Pam J


•             May 13, 2014 at 9:39 pm #65667
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Also, we need to decided on what size(s) and how many we are going to order. So here is what Joe Parlanti sent before:

On 3/31/2014 4:45 PM, Joe Parlanti wrote:

I have checked into the banners and here are a couple of example prices (all banners are 13oz. vinyl, full color with grommets:

Â

2′ x 10′ (good for the top of a 10′ EZ-up) – $49

3′ x 3′ (I believe this is close to the old banner size) – $23

Â

I’ve used halpricebanners.com several times in the past and they do good work. Once we decide on the content, I can do the graphics and organize the purchase.

Pam J


•             May 13, 2014 at 11:57 pm #65669
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

My proposal is same as Tom C’s. Recommend 2 at least 2′ height, allow logo to determine effective length. Logo layout does not work well with a square banner of an size.


•             May 14, 2014 at 2:28 am #65670
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

I thought it was discussed in the conference call that we would like each Regional Representative to have a banner and then at least 2 to go the United Chairman. What do others think?

Pam J


•             May 14, 2014 at 3:01 am #65671
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I was not part of the Conf call so I do not know the outcome of banner discussion. I suggest two banners as a minimum. They can be sent to the United chair. While it is noble to give one each to a Rep, I’d would not consider until the budget is approved for such an expense. It’s cheaper to mail them around for the limited use they get.

TT


•             May 15, 2014 at 2:13 am #65672
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

With true due respect to Tom Calvert as a founding member and Jim Linder for his opinion I agree with Tom E’s vision. You all know me as a long time member. Formally I was membership director of an early club which started out about the same time as TE/ AE. When I first joined our club I liked all things about it except the name. At least it should have been alphabetical and be AE / TE. Although I have owned three Tigers I guess I have been more Alpine centric. As I have grown older I’ve learned to appreciate the whole range of vehicles that Rootes built and would like to see something in our name that would make owners of these other Rootes products feel welcome from the start if they join our group. Also I like the vision of making the connection with the other Rootes based clubs in the country. (Although I think this may be harder than it sounds.) At the least I would like to make the rest of the Rootes range feel welcome to our organization. Jim I agree that most of the vehicles in our club are either Alpines or Tigers but I’m of the “If you build it they will come” school of thought on this subject.

With regard to the banners I would just interpose some phrase like “sponsors of” or “supporters of ” Rootes America while we work to agree on some plan for our future. In other words without making it a deal breaker on the banners lets just keep the ball in motion for the time being with regard to possible future actions. It won’t hurt anything or anybody to have it on the banners.

Respectfully,

Dave Reina


•             May 16, 2014 at 2:02 am #65673
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

With true due respect to Tom Calvert as a founding member and Jim Linder for his opinion I agree with Tom E’s vision. You all know me as a long time member. Formally I was membership director of an early club which started out about the same time as TE/ AE. When I first joined our club I liked all things about it except the name. At least it should have been alphabetical and be AE / TE. Although I have owned three Tigers I guess I have been more Alpine centric. As I have grown older I’ve learned to appreciate the whole range of vehicles that Rootes built and would like to see something in our name that would make owners of these other Rootes products feel welcome from the start if they join our group. Also I like the vision of making the connection with the other Rootes based clubs in the country. (Although I think this may be harder than it sounds.) At the least I would like to make the rest of the Rootes range feel welcome to our organization. Jim I agree that most of the vehicles in our club are either Alpines or Tigers but I’m of the “If you build it they will come” school of thought on this subject.

With regard to the banners I would just interpose some phrase like “sponsors of” or “supporters of ” Rootes America while we work to agree on some plan for our future. In other words without making it a deal breaker on the banners lets just keep the ball in motion for the time being with regard to possible future actions. It won’t hurt anything or anybody to have it on the banners.

Respectfully,

Dave Reina


•             May 16, 2014 at 11:20 am #65674
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

Like David says it well: “I agree that most of the vehicles in our club are either Alpines or Tigers but I’m of the “If you build it they will come” school of thought on this subject.”

Unfortunately I had no access at the time before the voting.

I think we make a big mistake by being stuck in the old ways, and not daring to undertake something new! That’s why a lot of companies for example are now out of business.

The future will not be the same as the past, one has to stay with it, or it will become an old mans relic. I know old cloth feel good and new ones take a while to feel comfortable. Enough said, I am disappointed. Robert


•             May 30, 2014 at 1:49 pm #65679
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

At this time there have been several proposals and opinions regarding Banners. However, there has not been a second on any, except the one already voted down. I still think there is a need for new banners. Can we come to an agreement or is this topic tabled for now?

Pam


•             May 30, 2014 at 3:02 pm #65680
 Fred Baum

From my 5/11/2014 response:

[b]Even if RA becomes an umbrella organization, there will
still be a Tigers East/ Alpines East. Therefore, I think ($0.02) that we should
end this conversation, go with the original TE/AE concept for the banners and
wait to see what happens with the RA idea.

I don’t think we’re going to see RA any time soon, but let’s
keep the idea alive[/b]

.

F


•             June 3, 2014 at 2:25 am #65683
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

Tom Calvert made a motion for a banner proposal on May 13. A second is needed.


•             June 3, 2014 at 10:54 pm #65684
 Steve and Janet Towle

I’ll second the motion from Tom C. on May 13.

Tiger Towle


•             June 4, 2014 at 11:04 am #65685
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

Before voting on the current proposal I’d like to have a discussion of the banner text once more. I agree that there is no fully defined and functioning Rootes America at this time. However I and I think enough other board members agree with the spirt of the idea and would like to keep this ball in play. In fact, just having these banner discussions has stirred some of us into imagining what RA could mean to all the Rootes based clubs.

For me, I finally have begun to see a way for us and other clubs to keep our autonomy, and names, but to be linked to each other electronically under RA.

I’d like to discuss the gelling of the RA concept further, but for the moment and while we are finalizing the banners I’d like to see RA added in a more subtile and softer way. If nothing else having it on the banners may open dialogs with folks viewing the banner.

My proposal is that we of course boldly feature TE/AE on the banners, and in smaller text (but still large enough to be visible) add “supporters of Rootes America”

Sunbeam Supreme Dave

PS- I apologize but was traveling without computer when the earlier vote came up. I would have voted to include RA at that time.


•             June 5, 2014 at 4:08 am #65686
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

Dave, I thought RA was a dead topic, but your “softer” marketing approach proposal makes sense and is a good middle ground to keep the RA concept at the forefront of the marque. What do others think?


•             June 6, 2014 at 1:29 am #65687
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

As most of you will know, I am very much in favor of RootesAmerica .

There are many examples in business, and elsewhere, were no changes were made and now these companies/organizations have vanished.

I do hold TEAE dear at heart, and do not want it to go that way. Changes have to be made, if you like it or not, that’s the way the world works.

I do support to add “supporting RootesAmerica” to the banner. Why fight this and not join it, there is nothing to loose only hopefully to gain.We have to start somewhere and this effort will:

1). Not cost TEAE an arm and a leg.

2). Show others that we really embrace all of the Rootes Group cars. Many other clubs in the world have done so, like: “Rootes Club Nederland”,

“Rootes Club of Belgium”, “Rootes Group Car Club New Zealand”, “Rootes Car Club Sweden”, to name just a few.

3). Start a discussion within our club, as well as with other clubs, to unite our efforts. (SAOCA already has our UNITED logo right at the top of

their website!) Realistically we are all just too small to do it alll, and do it well. Combining efforts utilize the combined talents and finances,

in a much better way.

4). We can start a publicity campaign nationally under this banner.

5). It does not harm anything we are doing at present.

Robert


•             June 6, 2014 at 2:07 pm #65688
 Fred Baum

This discussion started in April and has actually gone nowhere in getting new banners.

So, why not get banners made both ways — TE/AE and RA.

The cost is so low that we can afford to do this. This will also prepare us for the future (RA) as well as keep the TE/AE name alive for the present and the future.

Now all you need to discuss is what to put on the banners, and that has already been discussed ad nauseum.

If this discussion keeps up there will not be any banners for the United or any other event.

F


•             June 6, 2014 at 7:59 pm #65689
 Bob & Judy Sharkey

I definitely agree with Dave. The soft approach is good. There is no reason to spend the extra money on two sets of banners. I will not take up your time repeating all the sound reasons already set forth by Robert, Steve, Dave and Tom. Include RA now and get busy making Rootes America a reality. Now the question is how to make the wording work on the banners.

Judy


•             June 7, 2014 at 2:06 pm #65690
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

“TEAE supporting RootesAmerica”. We had a design almost like that by TT !! 

Robert


•             June 8, 2014 at 11:47 am #65691
 calvert

Dave’s suggested wording is getting closer to acceptable by me. But as Robert pointed out that brings us right back to where this started. At this point Rootes America is not well enough defined for me personally to say if it is supported or sponsored.

I suggest that we move ahead with the design proposed in my motion, seconded by Steve, which TT said he supports. We need to get some banners in hand.

I also suggest that the proponents of Rootes America write an article for the club newsletter, open a topic on the general membership forum and invite the general membership to join in the discussion so that we can get input from the members at large instead of only kicking it around amongst those with access to the official business forum.

Taking that action will help mature the idea/concept and provide a reference document for those not passionately involved.

If the idea develops a broader base of support, we can purchase additional banners as appropriate.

Tom Calvert


•             June 9, 2014 at 4:22 am #65692
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

At this point in the process we are in debate on the motion to vote on banners w/o RA.

I did say I would support a vote on the banner without RA since the previous vote ruled out the RA inclusion. It was a pragmatic decision on my part based on the fact that it was previously voted down and we need banners. However, with the renewed interest and awareness by others in the value of RA, I have no recourse but to rescind my support for a vote to make banners w/o RA.

Tom, I believe you are missing the point by not putting RA on banner now. The purpose of the RA on the banners now is to help drive what you suggest be done. It’s called marketing. I agree, we should open the discussion on the public forum and even the newsletter. It might actually get more to visits the TEAE site. Nothing like a little controversy to get attention. The banner is the turning point on this topic. It will help us mature the concept.

Let me be the first to say I’d love to write a business plan that incorporates the various America clubs as part of a vested national organization. But to even use that term presently would incite and polarize others. Our marque is not ready for that formal approach. My proposal is simply to continue the functional operation of our club as a true ALL Rootes club with the talent and resources we presently have. Continue embellishing all Rootes vehicles, Tigers, Alpines to Commer’s. Decisions are based on an RA bias. Our organization will work with and provide services to others and be part of their process and we will part of theirs. Examples include, newsletter, membership database, website, Paypal, BOD, etc.

Going back in time. In a previous proposal. I originally proposed we change TEAE to another generic name like Sunbeams United. We have ended up with RA which is quite appropriate. We are at this point because there was a strong opposition to change the clubs name. So, a compromise has been suggested. Presently it is TEAE supports RA? Whatever the phraseology, It is a concession to a complete name change which requires a bylaws amendment. Considering this banner debacle, it might have been easier to propose a bylaws change.

Our United’s have been the perennial live forum for all things TEAE and the marque in general. For this reason, I think it is imperative we have new banners in time for the United this year. And RA should be included.

Therefore, I ask the that Tom C amend the present proposal to include the “Supports RA” statement.

A future name change will better represent our mission objective to promote interest in the Sunbeam marque and we can still focus on the T&A interests. “The purpose is to promote interest in the Sunbeam Marque in general, and the Tiger/Alpine segment in particular”,


•             June 9, 2014 at 2:22 pm #65693
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

quote calvert:

Dave’s suggested wording is getting closer to acceptable by me.

Hi Tom- A bunch of us are hoping you will revise your banner proposal to include some mention of Rootes America. Although it still is an nebulous thing there is a spirt to the idea that we want to incorporate. In my current understanding of the RA concept, there is no name change proposal to our club. There is more I’d like to write on the subject but for now I want to make clear that point.

Regards,

Dave



•             June 17, 2014 at 3:11 am #65705
 calvert

Folks, with all due respect, repetition of the same reasons by the same vocal people does not convince me to change my proposal or thinking.

The banners should reflect reality.

I want to reiterate that I am neither for or against RA at this point. Various incantations of the RA concept have been put forth several times over several decades without gaining traction. I agree marketing is needed for the concept to succeed. I think articulating the concept in a broader forum and soliciting broad membership input/support is the best marketing strategy. A soft statement on the banners is not the level of marketing required to have the concept gain wide acceptance. The banners are only seen by a small segment of the general Rootes population.

It has been pointed out several times that the banners are relatively inexpensive. We should move forward with the proposal on the table and acquire revised banners when broader support for RA is established.

Tom Calvert


•             June 17, 2014 at 1:06 pm #65706
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

At this time we have a motion and a second to that motion with much discussion. I will now set up the vote and encourage all 7 of our Board of Directors to vote. I will send an e-mail to them since I know I don’t always receive notifications from the forum. We will see where we are after the vote and proceed from there.

I think any further discussion of RA should continue under the RA topic already set up in this section. It then should be presented to the general membership on the general forum, in the newsletter and at the United.

Pam


•             June 25, 2014 at 1:57 am #65711
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

The banner design was not approved. Should we table this until we meet at the United in MI?

Pam


•             June 25, 2014 at 1:20 pm #65714
 Steve and Janet Towle

Please see my comment in the voting topic.

Steve


•             June 25, 2014 at 7:13 pm #65720
 Steve and Janet Towle

I do not believe this should be tabled until the United for several reasons: (1)This has dragged out long enough; (2)At any given United we do not have all 7 board members present; (3) Nor do we have a good cross-section representation of the TE/AE members. It is far too easy to “stack the deck” for certain topics/points of view.

Steve


•             June 26, 2014 at 3:38 am #65723
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

I thought I posted this several days ago but it didn’t show up on the forum. Let me try again. I would like to make a motion to go ahead with the banners with the major graphic element being our TE/AE name and in a smaller font the text “Supporters of Rootes America”

Regards,

Venezia Dave


•             June 26, 2014 at 2:43 pm #65724
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Dave

You did post, but it was under the BOD vote on the banner. To avoid any confusion, please be very specific with your design.

do you mean:

1. TE/AE Supporters of Rootes America

2.Tigers East/Alpines East Supporters of Rootes America

3.The Tigers East Alpines East logo as on the back of the Rootes Review with Supporters of Rootes America

4. Something else

Thanks for the clarification.

Pam


•             June 26, 2014 at 3:35 pm #65725
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi Pam,

I will post an image later today.

Dave


•             July 22, 2014 at 6:44 pm #65744
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

This 3rd vote on a banner has passed 5 votes to 1.

Joe P., now that I think we know what we want on the banner and the size, can you again check what the pricing will be and what information and in what format that information needs to be in so we can order the banners.

Thanks,

Banner conversation: 2014

Date posted here does not necessarily match the date minutes were submitted.

This is the copied and pasted conversation about the new banners from the old forum. PDF of that document is here.

Collected 10/21/2020 by Kerch McConlogue before deleting the original in the private board forum at TEAE.org

April 2, 2014 at 9:47 pm #58143
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

The need for new club banners was discussed. The original club banners are held by Tom Ehrhart and are in very poor condition. Banners made and used for the 2008 United were never retrieved after the event. Joe Parlanti advised he knows of a company—Half Price Banners—that has very reasonable prices. Ensuing discussion determined the cost from this company was worthy of further consideration. Joe Parlanti will check with the company in the next 2 weeks and will get prices for various size banners. Once obtained, additional action can be taken.

Joe Parlanti have you checked with Half Price Banners for sizes and prices?

I have checked into the banners and here are a couple of example prices (all banners are 13oz. vinyl, full color with grommets:

2′ x 10′ (good for the top of a 10′ EZ-up) – $49

3′ x 3′ (I believe this is close to the old banner size) – $23

I’ve used halpricebanners.com several times in the past and they do good work. Once we decide on the content, I can do the graphics and organize the purchase.

Thanks,

JVP

Tom Ehrhart do you actually have club banners in your possession?

I have one banner. It’s an old “Alpines East” banner. Depsite Pat Johnson promise to return banners and Curt Bowlands offer to Pat in writing to pay shipping, we do not have the banners. We do need to go through with purchase of new banners in time for this year’s United. We also need to develop an agreed upon display. We have had many iterations of logos and branding ID’s (TEAE & RA) and sloagons like “Preservation of Rootes vehicles’…..” We need to use this opportunty to state who we are now and the future. TT


April 5, 2014 at 3:19 pm #65587
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

I need feedback from everyone on what we want on these banners.

What logo(s) do we want to use? Who has the best file on them?

What wording do we want to use?

What size should the banners be?

How many banners do we need? Remember it was discussed to have one for each Regional Representative to use at their regional events.

Pam


  April 27, 2014 at 10:58 pm #65626
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Hi all,

I’ve been on the road again, but have been following the emails regarding new banners for our club.

Joe Parlanti, gave us some sizes and prices:

I have checked into the banners and here are a couple of example prices (all banners are 13oz. vinyl, full color with grommets:

2′ x 10′ (good for the top of a 10′ EZ-up) – $49

3′ x 3′ (I believe this is close to the old banner size) – $23

I’ve used halpricebanners.com several times in the past and they do good work. Once we decide on the content, I can do the graphics and organize the purchase.

Tom Ehrhart, gave us a possible banner design:

[SORRY I COULDN’T GET THE BANNER DESIGN IMAGE TO COPY HERE}

Kerch McConlogue, suggested font changes:

I’m glad for the opportunity to to ditch the font of the original Visit http://WWW.TEAE.ORG

I believe the address line was originally set in Comic Sans, perhaps the most maligned font in history

I’d suggest something to match the “Dedicated..” tag line.. just not with all caps.

Also.. the “region of” part should probably match that font.. and be a bit smaller.

However, this also brought up a discussion again on Rootes America. At the BOD meeting at United XXXII:

Rootes America: The Rootes America initiative to promote a more corporate mindset to support all Rootes marques was discussed. A motion was made to table the Rootes America initiative and maintain the current TE/AE name until the club has a working website to advance the initiative. The motion was seconded by Eric Gibeaut. The motion as proposed was approved.

As of the last email I saw. Tom Ehrhart ended with the following:

I propose we take this to the forum and vote on whether to put the phrase “TEAE, a region of Rootes America” on the banner.

To keep things moving, it appears we have a motion on the table. This motion needs to be seconded or if it is not seconded then the motion will die.

However we still need a decision on a banner design, a banner size(s) and the number of banners needed. Remember we discussed making one for each Regional Representative and for use at the United. As we are already into the regional shows and preparing for the United I would like the BOD to come to an agreement on this matter.

Pam Jeffers


    April 29, 2014 at 4:04 am #65632
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

Just picked up on the flurry of emails about domains, Battles lost, dreams and Alp/Tgr demographics. Also the “A region of” vs something else suggestions. Everyone is correct. The RA Domain of TEAE term should be changed to what ever is agreed upon. The TEAE demographic comments is correct as well. And that is exactly the point with the RA concept. RETAIN TEAE identity, it’s bylaws, it’s culture and it’s members. Nothing changes. In fact it is embellished.

It is also agreed by many that a unified Rootes culture will best serve the marque in the future, including Tigers and Alpines. In other words a culture change is in the offing. It takes vision and future thinking to execute. Please remember this. Culture Change is slow. Very slow. It takes a generation.

The drama we have with the TEAE RA debate is not unprecedented. I believe there have been several national organizations that were launched via a strong marque club. Examples include; National Triumph Register, Austin Healey club of America, North American MGB Register to name a few. We are in the early stages in TEAE of doing the same thing.

TEAE has the leadership and operational platform to launch a consolidated Rootes organization. No one else does. As I noted elsewhere on the Forum, in an ideal arrangement, RA would be independently funded and organized and chartered as an independent national organization. But this option takes time and a committed group to make happen. It takes an effort to motivate, educate and inspire change. Promoting RA is a step to that end.

In practice, TEAE, like SAOCA , Three Spires, Talbot, etc. would be chapters, regions, affiliates, domain or any other term of RA. I do not care for domain because it sounds so domineering. And one doesn’t start an organization like this by trying to dominate anyone.

So back to what term to use for the “TEAE a XXX of RA”! Technically, Region, Chapter, Affiliate, member, Associate are all valid terms. The intent is to emphasize RA as a national organization by having other clubs retain their ID while having a hierarchical relationship for all things national.

So if I have to pick a phrase, and region is not acceptable, how’bout “affiliate of ” . But honestly, any rational adjective would be acceptable.

Let’s get past this so we can start building a RA organization.


•             April 29, 2014 at 2:04 pm #65633
 Bob & Judy Sharkey

I second Tom’s motion.

Judy


•             April 30, 2014 at 10:28 pm #65634
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Tom Ehrhart and Judy Sharkey,

Just to make sure I have it correct, Tom would you restate your proposal and the Judy would you again second it?

Then I can set up the BOD vote.

Thanks,

Pam

•             May 1, 2014 at 2:49 am #65639
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I propose a 2×10 banner design replicating the logo presented as the mast head at http://www.rootesamerica.org. Eliminate the phrase “a domain of” and incorporate the phrase “Dedicated to the preservation, restoration and enjoyment of all Rootes Group Vehicles” under the Rootes America logo.

•             May 1, 2014 at 1:31 pm #65640
 Bob & Judy Sharkey

I second the motion.

Judy

•             May 5, 2014 at 1:04 pm #65645
 calvert

Has the promised write up for Rootes America been provided? If so, please let me know where to find it.

We are supposed to be buying club banners. Rootes America exists in name only and that name (on the internet) was purchased by TEAE. I am not for or against Rootes America at this point since it is undefined.

The phrase “domain” is not a connotation of dominance to me, it is just a term for the internet address structure. However, I believe the anti TEAE contingent do not see that in a positive light.

Our club is TE/AE. If a Rootes America organization is to be established, let the proponents of that concept use their resources for that purpose.

TEAE resources should be used to strengthen and promote TEAE. Examples are Judy’s efforts in developing prestigious awards for car models other than Alpines and Tigers and making sure that the existing awards are as inclusive as possible.

I am opposed to putting Rootes America on TEAE banners.

I am all for encouraging owners of all Rootes cars to participate in TEAE activities. TEAE clearly states the same in the Articles of Incorporation and our current logos on roster, website and newsletter. We should use our resources to that end and not on a name change or an attempt to establish an American council of clubs, regions or whatever.

Tom Calvert

•             May 5, 2014 at 7:28 pm #65646
 James Lindner

Hi All

I must agree with Tom C. Our new banners should reflect only what exists today…Tigers East/Alpines East.

Rootes America is a noble vision…one that might be achieved. Once we understand what exactly it will be and determine if other Rootes clubs might embrace a similar vision, we can then decide whether to affiliate our club with it…something which I personally believe should involve a vote of the general membership.

In the meantime, I am against placing the Rootes America name/logo on the club banners currently being considered.

Jim Lindner

•             May 6, 2014 at 2:11 pm #65647
 John & Laurie Logan Jr.

I think we should wait on placing Rootesamerica on anything until it becomes something more substantial. Maybe our membership should have the opportunity to vote on the idea? Maybe it should be a separate project that does not use club funds or labor. Have other clubs shone an interest in belonging to a national club? I can’t vote but I would vote to wait. Wasn’t this tabled at St. Micheals by the Bod?

John

•             May 8, 2014 at 5:39 am #65649
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

The banner is driving this discussion. It’s a great deal breaker. Either we do Rootes America or not. If it is not put on the banner now, forget about RA forever. I can live with it either way. Herewith are my comments, proposal, and plan.

I believe there is a general consensus that there is merit in doing something to unify the Rootes marque. The Rootes marque is too fractured. Our marque is too small for separate Alpine club, three Tiger clubs and a variety of smaller marques like IMP, Talbot, Minx, Hillman, not to mention real orphans like Commer’s. Some argue that Tigers and Alpines are demographically the largest count of club membership and therefore we should not change the name to distract from that. This same debate was going on years ago with the Big and Little Healeys. They got over it and now have a national organization while allowing recognition of both. We need to do the same. For the logical pragmatists in the group, since we have more Tiger/Alpine members in TEAE, I propose we retain the TEAE name forever and it fits in the RA national organization like others.

As I noted before, in an ideal world RA would start as it’s own entity and TEAE would be, well, TEAE. We started SUNI years ago to be a platform for a united marque. Instead it got hijacked by one person. There is no SUNI organization. The point is this. If we believe in a national organizational, we will have to drive it. TEAE’s historical leadership infrastructure does not allow for a RA ONLY independent business plan implementation. It does not have the energies poured into establishing SUNI. Therefore, I propose we use the existing TEAE infrastructure (website, newsletter, database, leadership), its bylaws as is and the RA branding as a “soft” method to continue developing unity and strength in the marque.

The RA branding helps fuel the debate, cultivate other clubs interests and their leaders to engage in an on going development of a national organization. Therefore, I propose the new banner be used to perpetuate this concept and its design be similar to the Rootes America.org mast head, with the “a domain of” excluded.

An outline of a RA business plan follows.

Rootes America

A business plan outline

The purpose is to promote interest in North America Rootes/Sunbeam marques in the restoration, preservation and enjoyment of these vehicles and to promote cooperation among other Rootes/Sunbeam marque organizations, its owners and other enthusiasts. The organization is the ambassador for the Rootes/Sunbeam marques and an advocate for positive public and media recognition.

Implementation

Phase I

1. Promote and develop awareness of Rootes America concept of a national organization

A. Market RA name to create awareness, elicit debate and develop advocates.

B. Advocate a unified Tiger/Alpine national marque

C. Advocate increased exposure for smaller marque clubs or entities.

2. Continue ongoing development the TEAE organization towards a national platform

A. Operating infrastructure: (Newsletter, Membership database, Website)

B. Leadership: Decision making, promotion, budgeting focused on objective

3. Branding/Marketing

Retain TEAE name with a Rootes America theme. [The concept is used to create brand image. Analogy would be Pontiac(TEAE) GTO(RA) for it’s muscle car image. So it is with TEAE, RA defines what TEAE present leadership intends it to be]

Phase II

1. Promotion

A. Develop letter of intent with existing marque organizations or a national organization.

2. Develop an agreed organizational plan

A. BOD with representatives from each marque club

B. Establish club hierarchy and organizational structure with RA national, i.e. Regions, Affiliates, Partners or nothing

C. Financial

D. Utilizing shared resources.

E. Retain each club autonomy (name)

F. Use existing TEAE Newsletter, Membership database, Website as a platform for national organization

G. Use existing TEAE Bylaws as platform for RA Bylaws

3. Branding/Marketing

A. Continue TEAE RA theme

Phase III

RA becomes the central organization for Rootes/Sunbeam marque, public and media recognition with shared resources.

1. Promotion

A. Rootes/Sunbeam clubs use RA for national communication

B. RA is the go to for public promotion and media engagement.

2. Agreed business plan in operation

A. Shared resources integrated into a national operation.

B. TEAE Bylaws amended to reflect national organization.

C. RA Bylaws approved

D. Budget in place with funding by member clubs in place.

3. Branding/Marketing

A. Clubs retain their autonomy

B. Clubs use RA as a national platform and communication medium

C. RA

•             May 9, 2014 at 3:38 am #65650
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I need to amend my motion for banner design to; Design to be similar to the Rootes America.org mast head, with the “a domain of” excluded and adding the phrase “Dedicated to the preservation, restoration and enjoyment of all Rootes Group Vehicles”

•             May 9, 2014 at 11:14 am #65651
 calvert

TT,

Please elaborate on who the consensus consists of. Thanks for the general outline of your concept.

I would appreciate specific responses to the questions I posed above.

I commend you on your persistence, you have championed the idea for 20 or 25 years with very little buy in from other clubs.

On the lighter side, are you going to change your handle from TT to RAT?

Tom C.

•             May 9, 2014 at 4:21 pm #65652
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

I for one subscribe to the idea of Rootes America. There are many more commonalities in all the Rootes cars, than many realize. A lot of parts are interchangeable, and/or usable by others than only Tigers and Alpines. The Minxes, Sceptres, Venezias, Singers, Rapiers, etc. all share many items. Part sources, repro parts manufacturing, tech tips, for sale/wanted, recognition at concourses like Stowe British Invasion, exposure in magazines and other media, all are items which would benefit by a common organization.

Robert

•             May 11, 2014 at 8:54 pm #65654
 Fred Baum

Even if RA becomes an umbrella organization, there will still be a Tigers East/ Alpines East. Therefore, I think ($0.02) that we should end this conversation, go with the original TE/AE concept for the banners and wait to see what happens with the RA idea.

I don’t think we’re going to see RA any time soon, but let’s keep the idea alive.

F

•             May 13, 2014 at 3:04 am #65656
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

The proposed banner design was voted down. We now need another proposed design so we can still get some new banners printed.

Pam

•             May 13, 2014 at 3:25 am #65658
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I propose a banner with the TEAE script logo and the phrase “Dedicated to the preservation, restoration and enjoyment of all Rootes Group Vehicles”

•             May 13, 2014 at 12:17 pm #65663
 James Lindner

I am not a voting board member so I can not make a motion, but sticking with TT’s most recent proposal, why not use the logo as it appears on the main page of the TE/AE website. It has the TE/AE logo, the “Dedicated to…” verbiage, and the Sunbeam/Rootes badge.

Jim

•             May 13, 2014 at 12:25 pm #65664
 calvert

I suggest we use the same logo as used at the top of the newsletter mailing page (back page of the newsletter).

It incorporates the elements of TT’s current proposal and includes the replica of the Sunbeam Rootes Group badge.

Tom C.

________________________________________

Attachments:

•             May 13, 2014 at 2:45 pm #65665
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I agree.

•             May 13, 2014 at 7:50 pm #65666
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

So Tom Ehrhart, are you changing your proposal?

Pam J

•             May 13, 2014 at 9:39 pm #65667
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Also, we need to decided on what size(s) and how many we are going to order. So here is what Joe Parlanti sent before:

On 3/31/2014 4:45 PM, Joe Parlanti wrote:

I have checked into the banners and here are a couple of example prices (all banners are 13oz. vinyl, full color with grommets:

Â

2′ x 10′ (good for the top of a 10′ EZ-up) – $49

3′ x 3′ (I believe this is close to the old banner size) – $23

Â

I’ve used halpricebanners.com several times in the past and they do good work. Once we decide on the content, I can do the graphics and organize the purchase.

Pam J

•             May 13, 2014 at 11:57 pm #65669
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

My proposal is same as Tom C’s. Recommend 2 at least 2′ height, allow logo to determine effective length. Logo layout does not work well with a square banner of an size.

•             May 14, 2014 at 2:28 am #65670
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

I thought it was discussed in the conference call that we would like each Regional Representative to have a banner and then at least 2 to go the United Chairman. What do others think?

Pam J

•             May 14, 2014 at 3:01 am #65671
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

I was not part of the Conf call so I do not know the outcome of banner discussion. I suggest two banners as a minimum. They can be sent to the United chair. While it is noble to give one each to a Rep, I’d would not consider until the budget is approved for such an expense. It’s cheaper to mail them around for the limited use they get.

TT

•             May 15, 2014 at 2:13 am #65672
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

With true due respect to Tom Calvert as a founding member and Jim Linder for his opinion I agree with Tom E’s vision. You all know me as a long time member. Formally I was membership director of an early club which started out about the same time as TE/ AE. When I first joined our club I liked all things about it except the name. At least it should have been alphabetical and be AE / TE. Although I have owned three Tigers I guess I have been more Alpine centric. As I have grown older I’ve learned to appreciate the whole range of vehicles that Rootes built and would like to see something in our name that would make owners of these other Rootes products feel welcome from the start if they join our group. Also I like the vision of making the connection with the other Rootes based clubs in the country. (Although I think this may be harder than it sounds.) At the least I would like to make the rest of the Rootes range feel welcome to our organization. Jim I agree that most of the vehicles in our club are either Alpines or Tigers but I’m of the “If you build it they will come” school of thought on this subject.

With regard to the banners I would just interpose some phrase like “sponsors of” or “supporters of ” Rootes America while we work to agree on some plan for our future. In other words without making it a deal breaker on the banners lets just keep the ball in motion for the time being with regard to possible future actions. It won’t hurt anything or anybody to have it on the banners.

Respectfully,

Dave Reina

•             May 16, 2014 at 2:02 am #65673
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

With true due respect to Tom Calvert as a founding member and Jim Linder for his opinion I agree with Tom E’s vision. You all know me as a long time member. Formally I was membership director of an early club which started out about the same time as TE/ AE. When I first joined our club I liked all things about it except the name. At least it should have been alphabetical and be AE / TE. Although I have owned three Tigers I guess I have been more Alpine centric. As I have grown older I’ve learned to appreciate the whole range of vehicles that Rootes built and would like to see something in our name that would make owners of these other Rootes products feel welcome from the start if they join our group. Also I like the vision of making the connection with the other Rootes based clubs in the country. (Although I think this may be harder than it sounds.) At the least I would like to make the rest of the Rootes range feel welcome to our organization. Jim I agree that most of the vehicles in our club are either Alpines or Tigers but I’m of the “If you build it they will come” school of thought on this subject.

With regard to the banners I would just interpose some phrase like “sponsors of” or “supporters of ” Rootes America while we work to agree on some plan for our future. In other words without making it a deal breaker on the banners lets just keep the ball in motion for the time being with regard to possible future actions. It won’t hurt anything or anybody to have it on the banners.

Respectfully,

Dave Reina

•             May 16, 2014 at 11:20 am #65674
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

Like David says it well: “I agree that most of the vehicles in our club are either Alpines or Tigers but I’m of the “If you build it they will come” school of thought on this subject.”

Unfortunately I had no access at the time before the voting.

I think we make a big mistake by being stuck in the old ways, and not daring to undertake something new! That’s why a lot of companies for example are now out of business.

The future will not be the same as the past, one has to stay with it, or it will become an old mans relic. I know old cloth feel good and new ones take a while to feel comfortable. Enough said, I am disappointed. Robert

•             May 30, 2014 at 1:49 pm #65679
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

At this time there have been several proposals and opinions regarding Banners. However, there has not been a second on any, except the one already voted down. I still think there is a need for new banners. Can we come to an agreement or is this topic tabled for now?

Pam

•             May 30, 2014 at 3:02 pm #65680
 Fred Baum

From my 5/11/2014 response:

[b]Even if RA becomes an umbrella organization, there will
still be a Tigers East/ Alpines East. Therefore, I think ($0.02) that we should
end this conversation, go with the original TE/AE concept for the banners and
wait to see what happens with the RA idea.

I don’t think we’re going to see RA any time soon, but let’s
keep the idea alive[/b]

.

F

•             June 3, 2014 at 2:25 am #65683
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

Tom Calvert made a motion for a banner proposal on May 13. A second is needed.

•             June 3, 2014 at 10:54 pm #65684
 Steve and Janet Towle

I’ll second the motion from Tom C. on May 13.

Tiger Towle

•             June 4, 2014 at 11:04 am #65685
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

Before voting on the current proposal I’d like to have a discussion of the banner text once more. I agree that there is no fully defined and functioning Rootes America at this time. However I and I think enough other board members agree with the spirt of the idea and would like to keep this ball in play. In fact, just having these banner discussions has stirred some of us into imagining what RA could mean to all the Rootes based clubs.

For me, I finally have begun to see a way for us and other clubs to keep our autonomy, and names, but to be linked to each other electronically under RA.

I’d like to discuss the gelling of the RA concept further, but for the moment and while we are finalizing the banners I’d like to see RA added in a more subtile and softer way. If nothing else having it on the banners may open dialogs with folks viewing the banner.

My proposal is that we of course boldly feature TE/AE on the banners, and in smaller text (but still large enough to be visible) add “supporters of Rootes America”

Sunbeam Supreme Dave

PS- I apologize but was traveling without computer when the earlier vote came up. I would have voted to include RA at that time.

•             June 5, 2014 at 4:08 am #65686
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

Dave, I thought RA was a dead topic, but your “softer” marketing approach proposal makes sense and is a good middle ground to keep the RA concept at the forefront of the marque. What do others think?

•             June 6, 2014 at 1:29 am #65687
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

As most of you will know, I am very much in favor of RootesAmerica .

There are many examples in business, and elsewhere, were no changes were made and now these companies/organizations have vanished.

I do hold TEAE dear at heart, and do not want it to go that way. Changes have to be made, if you like it or not, that’s the way the world works.

I do support to add “supporting RootesAmerica” to the banner. Why fight this and not join it, there is nothing to loose only hopefully to gain.We have to start somewhere and this effort will:

1). Not cost TEAE an arm and a leg.

2). Show others that we really embrace all of the Rootes Group cars. Many other clubs in the world have done so, like: “Rootes Club Nederland”,

“Rootes Club of Belgium”, “Rootes Group Car Club New Zealand”, “Rootes Car Club Sweden”, to name just a few.

3). Start a discussion within our club, as well as with other clubs, to unite our efforts. (SAOCA already has our UNITED logo right at the top of

their website!) Realistically we are all just too small to do it alll, and do it well. Combining efforts utilize the combined talents and finances,

in a much better way.

4). We can start a publicity campaign nationally under this banner.

5). It does not harm anything we are doing at present.

Robert

•             June 6, 2014 at 2:07 pm #65688
 Fred Baum

This discussion started in April and has actually gone nowhere in getting new banners.

So, why not get banners made both ways — TE/AE and RA.

The cost is so low that we can afford to do this. This will also prepare us for the future (RA) as well as keep the TE/AE name alive for the present and the future.

Now all you need to discuss is what to put on the banners, and that has already been discussed ad nauseum.

If this discussion keeps up there will not be any banners for the United or any other event.

F

•             June 6, 2014 at 7:59 pm #65689
 Bob & Judy Sharkey

I definitely agree with Dave. The soft approach is good. There is no reason to spend the extra money on two sets of banners. I will not take up your time repeating all the sound reasons already set forth by Robert, Steve, Dave and Tom. Include RA now and get busy making Rootes America a reality. Now the question is how to make the wording work on the banners.

Judy

•             June 7, 2014 at 2:06 pm #65690
 Robert and Mariet Jaarsma

“TEAE supporting RootesAmerica”. We had a design almost like that by TT !! 

Robert

•             June 8, 2014 at 11:47 am #65691
 calvert

Dave’s suggested wording is getting closer to acceptable by me. But as Robert pointed out that brings us right back to where this started. At this point Rootes America is not well enough defined for me personally to say if it is supported or sponsored.

I suggest that we move ahead with the design proposed in my motion, seconded by Steve, which TT said he supports. We need to get some banners in hand.

I also suggest that the proponents of Rootes America write an article for the club newsletter, open a topic on the general membership forum and invite the general membership to join in the discussion so that we can get input from the members at large instead of only kicking it around amongst those with access to the official business forum.

Taking that action will help mature the idea/concept and provide a reference document for those not passionately involved.

If the idea develops a broader base of support, we can purchase additional banners as appropriate.

Tom Calvert

•             June 9, 2014 at 4:22 am #65692
 Tom & Joanne Ehrhart

At this point in the process we are in debate on the motion to vote on banners w/o RA.

I did say I would support a vote on the banner without RA since the previous vote ruled out the RA inclusion. It was a pragmatic decision on my part based on the fact that it was previously voted down and we need banners. However, with the renewed interest and awareness by others in the value of RA, I have no recourse but to rescind my support for a vote to make banners w/o RA.

Tom, I believe you are missing the point by not putting RA on banner now. The purpose of the RA on the banners now is to help drive what you suggest be done. It’s called marketing. I agree, we should open the discussion on the public forum and even the newsletter. It might actually get more to visits the TEAE site. Nothing like a little controversy to get attention. The banner is the turning point on this topic. It will help us mature the concept.

Let me be the first to say I’d love to write a business plan that incorporates the various America clubs as part of a vested national organization. But to even use that term presently would incite and polarize others. Our marque is not ready for that formal approach. My proposal is simply to continue the functional operation of our club as a true ALL Rootes club with the talent and resources we presently have. Continue embellishing all Rootes vehicles, Tigers, Alpines to Commer’s. Decisions are based on an RA bias. Our organization will work with and provide services to others and be part of their process and we will part of theirs. Examples include, newsletter, membership database, website, Paypal, BOD, etc.

Going back in time. In a previous proposal. I originally proposed we change TEAE to another generic name like Sunbeams United. We have ended up with RA which is quite appropriate. We are at this point because there was a strong opposition to change the clubs name. So, a compromise has been suggested. Presently it is TEAE supports RA? Whatever the phraseology, It is a concession to a complete name change which requires a bylaws amendment. Considering this banner debacle, it might have been easier to propose a bylaws change.

Our United’s have been the perennial live forum for all things TEAE and the marque in general. For this reason, I think it is imperative we have new banners in time for the United this year. And RA should be included.

Therefore, I ask the that Tom C amend the present proposal to include the “Supports RA” statement.

A future name change will better represent our mission objective to promote interest in the Sunbeam marque and we can still focus on the T&A interests. “The purpose is to promote interest in the Sunbeam Marque in general, and the Tiger/Alpine segment in particular”,

•             June 9, 2014 at 2:22 pm #65693
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

quote calvert:

Dave’s suggested wording is getting closer to acceptable by me.

Hi Tom- A bunch of us are hoping you will revise your banner proposal to include some mention of Rootes America. Although it still is an nebulous thing there is a spirt to the idea that we want to incorporate. In my current understanding of the RA concept, there is no name change proposal to our club. There is more I’d like to write on the subject but for now I want to make clear that point.

Regards,

Dave

•             June 17, 2014 at 3:11 am #65705
 calvert

Folks, with all due respect, repetition of the same reasons by the same vocal people does not convince me to change my proposal or thinking.

The banners should reflect reality.

I want to reiterate that I am neither for or against RA at this point. Various incantations of the RA concept have been put forth several times over several decades without gaining traction. I agree marketing is needed for the concept to succeed. I think articulating the concept in a broader forum and soliciting broad membership input/support is the best marketing strategy. A soft statement on the banners is not the level of marketing required to have the concept gain wide acceptance. The banners are only seen by a small segment of the general Rootes population.

It has been pointed out several times that the banners are relatively inexpensive. We should move forward with the proposal on the table and acquire revised banners when broader support for RA is established.

Tom Calvert

•             June 17, 2014 at 1:06 pm #65706
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

At this time we have a motion and a second to that motion with much discussion. I will now set up the vote and encourage all 7 of our Board of Directors to vote. I will send an e-mail to them since I know I don’t always receive notifications from the forum. We will see where we are after the vote and proceed from there.

I think any further discussion of RA should continue under the RA topic already set up in this section. It then should be presented to the general membership on the general forum, in the newsletter and at the United.

Pam

•             June 25, 2014 at 1:57 am #65711
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

The banner design was not approved. Should we table this until we meet at the United in MI?

Pam

•             June 25, 2014 at 1:20 pm #65714
 Steve and Janet Towle

Please see my comment in the voting topic.

Steve

•             June 25, 2014 at 7:13 pm #65720
 Steve and Janet Towle

I do not believe this should be tabled until the United for several reasons: (1)This has dragged out long enough; (2)At any given United we do not have all 7 board members present; (3) Nor do we have a good cross-section representation of the TE/AE members. It is far too easy to “stack the deck” for certain topics/points of view.

Steve

•             June 26, 2014 at 3:38 am #65723
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi All,

I thought I posted this several days ago but it didn’t show up on the forum. Let me try again. I would like to make a motion to go ahead with the banners with the major graphic element being our TE/AE name and in a smaller font the text “Supporters of Rootes America”

Regards,

Venezia Dave

•             June 26, 2014 at 2:43 pm #65724
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

Dave

You did post, but it was under the BOD vote on the banner. To avoid any confusion, please be very specific with your design.

do you mean:

1. TE/AE Supporters of Rootes America

2.Tigers East/Alpines East Supporters of Rootes America

3.The Tigers East Alpines East logo as on the back of the Rootes Review with Supporters of Rootes America

4. Something else

Thanks for the clarification.

Pam

•             June 26, 2014 at 3:35 pm #65725
 David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi Pam,

I will post an image later today.

Dave

•             July 22, 2014 at 6:44 pm #65744
 Tom and Pam Jeffers

This 3rd vote on a banner has passed 5 votes to 1.

Joe P., now that I think we know what we want on the banner and the size, can you again check what the pricing will be and what information and in what format that information needs to be in so we can order the banners.

Thanks,

Board Meeting: February 2014

February 15, 2014

Attendees: Joe Parlanti, Tom Calvert, Steve Towle Judy Sharkey, Eric Gibeaut, David Reina, Pam Jeffers, John Logan Jr, Barb Geschke, Jim Lindner, Joe McConlogue, Kerch McConlogue, Russ Eshelman.

The meeting was called to order by President Pam Jeffers at 1:05PM.

The minutes from Board of Director’s (BOD) and General Membership Meetings held at the United in October 2013 were previously emailed to all attendees.  No corrections were noted and the minutes were approved.

Former Treasurer Gary Moss’s 2013 year-end report, previously sent via email to everyone, was approved.  Current Treasurer Barb Geschke reported her current balance as $10,885.75.  Gary Moss still has some money in the old checking account waiting for the last checks to clear.

Barb will look into opening a second PayPal account for United registration as a non-profit.

Old Business:

Joe McConlogue was welcomed as new Membership Chairman.

Pam Jeffers submitted Tod and Merrilee Brown to be the new Editors.  Motion made by Tom Calvert to approve Tod and Merrilee Brown as new Editors of the Rootes Review and to allow purchase of Publisher software.  David Reina seconded the motion.  Motion passed unanimously.  It was suggested to research if the software was available in the cloud. 

President Jeffers requested an update on the completion of the job description for the club Web Master and Forum Administrator. Kerch McConlogue (Web Master) advised she has finished the description of duties and responsibilities for her position (Webmaster.) A status from Eric Smyder (Forum Administrator) is pending. It was recommended that upon receipt of these descriptions they be filed/posted in a central location.

President Jeffers asked how many printed rosters were mailed during the recent printing/mailing and what percentage of the member ship requested printed copies? Initially not available, Membership Chairman Joe McConlogue has reported that the database shows fifty-nine (59) members requested a hard copy.

President Jeffers reported that volunteer Jennifer Arters continues to make progress on the disposition of Archival Newsletters in PDF. She was able to proceed with the donation of software by Tom Earhart and reports approximately 40% of the articles have been OCR’d. April 2014 remains the targeted completion date.

Judy Sharkey prepared draft wording for the changes to the Keith Porter (KP) and Wally J Swift (WJS) Awards. Judy explained that her proposed changes reflect the current thinking within the club to become an all-Rootes club. She advised her proposed wording is, therefore, intended to be more inclusive of all Rootes makes. In the ensuing discussion, it was pointed out that these awards were created to honor certain people who had specific interests and passions. The current awards reflect these and the memory of the individuals for whom they are named and should not be diluted in an attempt to embrace the new, more inclusive philosophy of the club. It was suggested that a new trophy for other Rootes vehicles would reflect the more inclusive philosophy of the club and at the same time allow the original purpose of the KP and WSJ awards to remain intact.

The criteria for the KP and WSJ awards will therefore remain as is. Eric Gibeaut volunteered to conduct/manage the research into a new, more inclusive award. Results of the research and discussion of a possible new award will occur at the annual meeting in September.

In discussing the duties of regional representatives and the difficulties in conducting regional activities, it was recommended that in an effort to stimulate reporting on regional activities the club should send emails to the regional representatives each month reminding them about the newsletter deadlines. It was further recommended that these emails should include the entire membership. Membership Chairman Joe McConlogue advised he will work on an automated email to the membership. He added that this effort had limitations since the club does not have on file an email address for every member.

Forum moderators are currently out of date. President Jeffers will contact Forum Administrator Eric Smyder to update them. Eric Gibeaut advised he will contact Eric with some suggestions for moderators.

The status of the search for a Publicity Chairman was discussed. In addition to a call for possible candidates, the possibility of seeking Robert Jaarsma to fill the position was discussed. Steve Towle will ask Robert regarding his desire to fill this position.

United XXXIII Update: The registration forms will be available soon. A United XXXIII TAC session was discussed. John Logan advised the plan is to have a TAC session during the United and that several inquires have already been received. Currently, attendance of specific TAC inspectors is not yet confirmed. The greater the demand (number of TAC inspections required); the more likely arrangements can be made to ensure inspections are conducted, even if it requires flying in an inspector. It was noted that there now is a $50.00 charge for TAC inspections. Making a note about this on the registration flyer was recommended as was a recommendation to include a check block on the registration form if a TAC inspection is required. This will enable event managers to monitor demand.

Venues for Future Uniteds: Ohio Members are discussing plans to host the 2015 United and Steve Halbrook and Nick Kintner are considering serving as hosts in Florida for the 2016 United.

New Business:  

President Jeffers called for any suggestions to replace Bill Evans as the Deep South Regional Representative. Eric Gibeaut advised he believes Bill Bulpitt is willing to serve and he will contact Bill to determine if he is willing to serve.

The Tiger 50 International Rally has asked for photographs, regalia and/or a sign board for a club display. Tom Calvert is attending and is willing to set things up but the club needs to ship it ahead of time. He cannot transport it since his baggage is limited. President Jeffers requested ideas. The consensus was that the club should make available to the Tiger 50 attendees a tri-fold handout and club sticker. The handout would include an appropriate graphic or photo, a history of the club, membership info, regalia info and contact info. A scan icon could provide direct link to the club website. Tom Calvert will put together ideas and work with Judy Sharkey and Fred Baum. Judy Sharkey motioned that a maximum budget of $125.00 be allotted to this effort with any excess returned to the club treasury. This motion was seconded by Dave Reina. The motion was unanimously carried.

The need for new club banners was discussed. The original club banners are held by Tom Ehrhart and are in very poor condition. Banners made and used for the 2008 United were never retrieved after the event. Joe Parlanti advised he knows of a company—Half Price Banners—that has very reasonable prices. Ensuing discussion determined the cost from this company was worthy of further consideration. Joe Parlanti will check with the company in the next 2 weeks and will get prices for various size banners. Once obtained, additional action can be taken.

Treasurer Barb Greshke recommended the club authorize an additional individual(s) to sign on club accounts in case of an emergency.

Tom Calvert made a motion to adjourn which was seconded by Joe Parlanti. The motion was unanimously carried and the meeting was adjourned at 4:07 PM.

Submitted by Jim Lindner, Secretary

Date posted here does not necessarily match the date minutes were submitted.

General Membership Meeting: October 2013

12 October 2013

Opening Matters

The meeting was called to order by President Jeffers at 1700. All present stood and recited the Pledge of Allegiance. President Jeffers then introduced the Board of Directors (BoD) and club officers present.

Secretary James Lindner read the meeting minutes from the 2012 General Membership meeting. Tom Jeffers then moved to accept the 2012 General Membership Meeting Minutes. The motion was seconded by Al Geschke. The motion to accept the meeting minutes was approved.

Old Business

Budget Report: President Jeffers read the Treasurer’s report in the absence of Gary Moss, Treasure, who provided the following information via email:

2013 Starting Balance  $10,215.03
Credits Debits
Membership Income $13,078.67 Newsletter -$9,807.10
Interest $0.00 Club Administration -$1,052.70
Regalia Sales $160.00 Miscellaneous Reimbursements $0.00
Remaining past United $0.00 Remaining past United $0.00
Current United Deposits $15,932.67 Current United withdrawals -$1,411.50
Future United Deposits $0.00 Future United withdrawals -$500.00
Gain/(Loss) $16,400.04
2013 Year End Balance $26,615.07

A motion to accept the Budget Report was made by Barb Geshke and was seconded by Bob Sharkey. The motion to accept was carried.

Membership Report:  Curt Hoffman, Membership Chairman gave an update on the club membership. Currently, the club has 506 paid members, 4 lifetime members and 7 courtesy members. Other statistics include: 137 members receive electronic newsletters; 171 cars in the VIN database; and 725 cars are listed as owned by club members although this number is likely inaccurate since regular updates from members are rarely received. The club adds about three members each month, but loses about the same.

Chairman Hoffman then reviewed the VIN Registry Project. He explained the registry is located in the Members Only section of the website and individuals need a separate User ID/password which is assigned by the Membership Chairman. The VIN Registry serves as an excellent historical resource and provides details on cars to include color, engine, modifications etc. Members were encouraged to post their car’s information or update old information.

Chairman Hoffman then reviewed the Electronic roster. He started by stating that the hard copy roster is only updated every two years and is the clubs largest expense. The club is therefore trying to move to an electronic roster, which would be available online and always up to date. Members were encouraged to use the electronic roster.

Curt Hoffman then advised that due to expected travel in the coming year, he would be unable to continue as membership chairman and solicited a replacement from the membership. He then provided a brief overview of the duties, responsibilities and effort required for the position.

Regional Representatives: President Jeffers introduced the Regional Representatives present and publicly acknowledged their efforts.

                Joe Parlanti: Chesapeake

                Curt Bowland: Midwest

                Steve Halbrook: Florida

                Tom Ehrhart: Pennsylvania

                Bill Mounce: New Jersey

                Doug Jennings: Ohio

                Russ Eschelman: Virginia

                Eric Gibeaut: Carolinas

New Business

Nominations for club officers and board members: President Jeffers then reviewed the nominations for the upcoming elections for club officers and BoD.

The following individuals have volunteered to serve another term as club officers:

                Pam Jeffers: President

                John Logan Jr.: Vice President

                James Lindner: Secretary

                Gary Moss: Treasurer

Gary Moss is completing his 4th term as treasurer and cannot run for this position again. Barb Geshke offered her name as nominee to fill the position.

Robert Jaarsma will step down from his position on the BoD. The following individuals have volunteered to serve another term on the BoD.

                Judy Sharkey

                Dave Reina

President Jeffers solicited other nominations from the membership. Tom Ehrhart nominated Joe Parlanti to replace Robert Jaarsma on the BoD.

A motion to accept the above nominations was made by Dave Kellog and seconded by Curt Bowland. The motion to accept the nominations was carried. Nominations will be posted in a forthcoming club newsletter no later than Dec 2013.

SUNI VI: President Jeffers announced that SUNI VI was scheduled for June 29 – July 4 2014 in Colorado Springs, CO. President Jeffers explained the history of SUNI and added that it had not evolved as originally envisioned—a collaborative event involving all Sunbeam Clubs. Currently, the planning, organization, and staging of SUNI events are dominated by a single person. Consequently, TE/AE has decided to hold United gatherings during SUNI years. The 4 year Plan for upcoming TE/AE United gatherings is as follows:

                2014       Boyne Mountain, MI

                2015       Midwest

                2016       South

                2017       Mid-Atlantic

United XXXIII: John Logan Jr. gave an overview of United XXXIII scheduled for Boyne Mtn, MI on 11-14 September 2014. He stated that planning has already started and he solicited volunteers for anybody wanting to help organize and run the event.

President Jeffers then solicited volunteers to begin planning the 2015 Midwest United. Anyone with ideas for that event should contact Midwest Regional Representatives Curt Bowland and Doug Jennings.

Website and Forum Update: President Jeffers introduced Kerch McConlogue the club Webmaster. Ms. McConlogue solicited any questions the membership might have about the website. She then went on to solicit photos from this event. She also solicited feedback from the membership as to what they want from their website.

Eric Smyder, the TE/AE Forum Moderator then reviewed the status of the TE/AE Forum. He stated how features were being added and he solicited feedback from the membership. He also said he is working with moderators for the different sub-forums to promote interaction with visitors to the forum.

President Jeffers asked the membership if anyone could take on a project to make the website’s historical pdf files searchable. Jennifer Arters volunteered.

Newsletter Editor and Webmaster Succession: President Jeffers expressed the need for a succession plan for the newsletter editor and Webmaster, two critical positions within the club. President Jeffers added that the club needs to identify qualified individuals for these positions in advance. She solicited volunteers from the membership.

Open Membership Comments: President Jeffers opened the floor to comments from the membership. Dave Reina, who was responsible for organizing the nominees for the Historic Vehicle Association “This Car Matters Award” reviewed the criteria for the award.

Eric Gibeaut reminded the membership that Club Regalia and Sunbeam Survivor Manuals are available for purchase. Moreover, the club was switching to an online ordering system.

John Logan Sr. moved that the meeting be adjourned. The motion was seconded by John Logan Jr. The motion was carried and the meeting was adjourned at 1900.

Submitted by Jim Lindner, Secretary

Date posted here does not necessarily match the date minutes were submitted.

Latest United Info

Date posted here does not necessarily match the date minutes were submitted.


January 31, 2011 at 2:37 am
Eric and Bonnie Gibeaut

I posted this note from Pat here so everyone can see my reply. Pat can you please post United info here for the board to read versus email? Thank-you.

I think a combined show would be interesting and work well-we did the same at the United this last year in Maine. It looks like you are really putting together a great United weekend and everything is falling in place. I think a train ride/dinner would be a nice addition if you can get it lined up. Curt what did you think of the hotel and the area?
Thanks again for your hard work!
Eric

To the board,

As you guys are well aware of,Sunbeams United 30 will be in French Lick Indiana.We have made some great connections in the town to accomodate us Sunbeam folk in October..I would like to keep all the board involved in what our team has been doing and what our general plans have been up to now.The hotel Is called French Lick Springs Resort as some may already be aware of and Is located in Southern Indiana.I know most say and wonder why Indiana?Southern Indiana is A great area,rollings hills, amazing views,and just generally a perfect area to bring a Sunbeam and enjoy some great driving and great people.The town itself backs up to the Hoosier National Forest as well.

Below is kinda a general rundown of what we have going on.It is not fully detailed by any means and that will come in the next few months.

I guess I can start with featured guests and what it will mean to make United 30 standout.
We have confirmed Larry Mayfield as a featured guest and speaker at the banquet dinner,He will be around and would like to be involved with everyone at united for the entire weekend.We feel this be something different and many would love to hear him talk about racing on the salts and building a Sunbeam to do that with.Some may not know that he also is original owner of tiger,and still has it.another guest we have that we have attending is John Clegg,He was designer and engineer for Rootes Group and designed agmonst many things for Rootes,the 1725cc Alpine motor.I personally cannot take the credit for roping John into going to United though,that was Tiger Toms smooth talking.we think about doing some q&a with him or maybe some tech tips,,not to sure yet but I like said the fine details can be provided in the next few months.Barry Schomberger,and Tom Patton will be attending as well,maybe to speak at the banquet and more so just to mingle,The race tigers will be with them as well so that should be something cool that not everyone gets to see often.Dennis Gage has also confimed that he will be at the car show with his crew since its located about 30 miles away from his home office.I actually just recieved his email to confirm it.

Car Show
RARE ROOTES,I want to see more of them and that has been my main focus as of lately,we all know the Tiger and Alpine guys will show but Rare Rootes is my target.Originally I had wanted to host the car show at the hotel on one of there many golf courses,Im leaning on going with something different now,,and here is why.A car show in a parking lot to me gets somewhat boring after some time,and after thinking long and hard about it,I have came to realize that this is what it would be at the golf course,not to mention it would bring the general public in as much,it would basically just be us in a parking lot 20 feet away from where we would park our cars at night..Nothing sounds standoutish about that..So we are working with the Town Of French Lick to move our car show into the Historical district,which has many small shops and other things to do while at a the car show,,plus its puts is in a public area which I think is good on many levels.One thing I would like everyones opion on though is town wants host a vintage only car show attracting british cars and a few other makes..I had clearly said That Tigers East and Rootes America are the featured car and to give us exclusive first rights over how we do things and parking of our cars.anything else including trophys and judging and whatnot like that would solely be on the town and not us..Do you guys feel This would work?

Road rally
pretty straight forward
Rally through hoosier national forest and maybe,What we have planned as far as that goes is still being created by one of staffers and should be set in the next few weeks,we have some cool features I guess I could leak out though,,Jasper race enginens is located on our road rally and the owner has a personal car musuem that he loves showing off and would love us to stop by,another feature will be the lunch in the forest that i think most will enjoy,,with that said im still waiting on fine details.However I am sure it will be another standout feature of United 30

Autocross,
The autocross is for sure going to be a standout experience for the novice to the advanced racer.It will be at Salem Speedway which features a Fresh paved autocross track in the infield,Barry Schomberger will be running that part along with Doug Jennings and they both feel it work just fine for our needs.It is also the first time we have used a actuall speedway since the Suni in Lake Geneva Wisconsin..another nice feature about this we are not tying in any other clubs so it solely be a Tigers East event to give more drivers more runs,With Barrys race history im sure this again will also make United standout.

Filler
I understand some people dont want to do the rally or autocross or special dinners or whatever,,for that I have made several other features and contacts in town for everyone to go out and do,,wine tours,historical tours,outside food locations and whatnot like that,so literally therwe is something for everyone.
I have two options for the dinner cruise so please feel free to comment
1- we did find another historic train ride with dinner,it is located about 20 miles from the hotel,most seemed to like the idea of a train dinner through hoosier national forest,and would definatly be a first for a United,the drawbacks though to this is the 20 mile ride,and lets face it, in the woods in Southern Indiana is dark at night and those of us like me still run Lucas lights might have a bit of a hard time..However the hotel has offered a shuttle bus to transport us in smaller groups.
2-a boat ride on Pakota Lake,,Ive been on this ride and they do have good dinner cruises,but seemed they hard time filling the cruise time,,not to mention it seems we find ourselves on a boat ride more often than not.that ride. however it is only 13 miles away,but hotel cannot shuttle to pakota lake.
It seems no matter what there is small details to attract or disattract some people so comments or suggestions are welcome

As of now I have a few other trick and Plans but nothing set in stone so when I get that in the next week I will send out some emails

On thursday the 27 we had invited some people down to see the hotel,and all the rooms such as our banquet rooms,hospitality rooms,and parts and board meeting rooms,tech session rooms and stuff of that nature,,Our group consisted of Curt Hoffman,Doug Jennings,Myself and Barry Schomberger..We had a nice catered dinner by the chefs for our banquet,and I must say it was very good.I feel our guests felt the same..They were also very impressed with hotel and all rooms we chose for the United(hospitality,board,parts rooms)and just how much stuff there is to do in general at the hotel.The hotel also put everyone up for the night so we could really get a feel for French Lick..Im sure Curt or doug will all say the same.

thats about it for now and more to come in the next few weeks.just wanted to keep everyone in the loop

Thanks
Pat



February 1, 2011 at 3:24 pm
Curt & Linda Hoffman

To Eric’s question on the hotel- this is one of those hotels you say “Holy sh**” when you first see it. I had never been there until this weekend and it is truly an amazing place. We saw the West Baden hotel first and then the French Lick. Both are grand old hotels that have been extensively restored. We ate at West Baden.they are both amazing and the rooms are wonderful. Of course there is the French Lick Winery across the street (sort of) that we couldn’t pass up either.

Biggest problem we will have is getting people home after they lose all their money in the casino attached : )



February 4, 2011 at 6:46 pm
David Reina and Donna Koretsky

Hi Pat,
Your descriptions of everything sound great. I could handle the 20 mile drive to the dinner train if you decide to go this way. I also always enjoy being on the water so either way works for Donna and me. I like that you are pushing for more Rare Rootes and I will aim to bring a Talbot. Thank you for all your great work.
Regards,
Dave Reina



February 4, 2011 at 8:08 pm
pjmotorsports

Dave,
The train ride is a very fun time,and unique..It has a very historic look to it and the inside of the train cars are all refurbished and more than able to provide a great dinner cruise.It wraps through hoosier national forest as well..
I am pushing the rare rootes as hard as I can and making some good headway,,If any one has contacts to attract more rare rootes that would help me out also..

I will keep everyone in the loop as more events unfold
pat



February 9, 2011 at 9:39 pm
pjmotorsports

UPDATE Feb 9 2011

We locked in the train in Jasper for our dinner cruise on saturday night..The Train itself holds 88 people for dinning and another 32 people in the bar area.Unfortunatly the people sitting in the bar will not be able to eat as part of the dinner cruise but still will be able to enjoy the train ride and cash bar.

The car show is going to be in The town of French Lick in the historical district area..At the time of our car show the town also has a antique craft show,and the taste of town art fair which includes bands,food,air show, art fair..I think we will fit in nicely with this venue and am working closely with the city to host our show.

And of course the autocross is locked in at Salem Speedway,which is going to be super fun as well,Barry from Team Tiger is putting together the autocross and im sure it will be fun for everyone..

All for now
Pat

Off to French Lick again

Date posted here does not necessarily match the date minutes were submitted.


December 27, 2010 at 7:16 pm
pjmotorsports

hello everybody

well im off again to french lick to negotiate our contract some more.I am working my hardest to lower room rates from 139.00 to 129.00 a night.I feel with tigers east being ready to sign on dotted line we might have a little more leverage to negotiate.If we get a lower rate of 129 a night this brings us right around the cost of owls head.but once tax is included this brings the rates back to around 139.00 a night total,,instead of 149.00 with the old rate and tax..Another issue that just came up was our dinner cruise on the railway cars,it seems they booked up for our weekend so I found TWO more options,The first is another railway cruise in a neighboring county(about 20 miles drive)I was thinking this may be alittle further than what we would like to travel.(its dark at night in the woods so with lucas guiding our way that might not work out so well)My second pick is a lake tour,I know its been done over and over again but that is located in french lick and minimal drive time required..just wanted to keep everybody informed on our happenings..

thanks
Pat Johnson



December 27, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Eric and Bonnie Gibeaut

Thanks for keeping us posted Pat! Sorry to hear the train trip and dinner is off. I like trains too and that would have been great fun and a United first as far as I know. It is good to see you talking up the United on the Alpine club’s website too. Keep spreading the word! Eric



December 28, 2010 at 1:33 am
pjmotorsports

Confirmed as of 5 minutes ago—Landspeed Record Holder Larry Mayfield will be attending as a featured guest and banquet speaker.some talks have been made about his Alpine being at United as well..Along with some other Sunbeam racers this is really looking up to be a great United and it hasnt even started yet.

Thanks
Pat



December 28, 2010 at 1:36 am
pjmotorsports

Eric,
Is there any more info on your Harrington meet in March?It would be kinda neat to get something like this at our United as well.Or at least attract more rare rootes.



December 28, 2010 at 2:22 am
Eric and Bonnie Gibeaut

Pat there is not going to be any special Harrington gathering this year for several reasons-mainly that I just organized the last Sunbeam Alpine club’s Invasion this last May and I don’t relish doing another large event anytime soon! Also the reality is that only a handful of Harringtons would show up anyway. In the last 30 years of attending Uniteds the most Harringtons that ever showed up at a United was at Covington, Kentucky when 4 of them were there. 2011- besides being the United XXX- is also the 50th anniversary of the Harrington Alpine. I plan on driving my Harrington to the United. Maybe Harrington cars could be the “featured Marque” of the United? Eric

Attachments:



December 29, 2010 at 4:45 am
pjmotorsports

eric,
I understand on not wanting to assemble another meet.It is without a doubt not an easy task.I would love to have the Harringtons as a featured mark.If 4 showed up at Covington we might be able to get that crowd in French Lick.I really liked that harrington race car,D class maybe.my knowledge is rusty on alpines.There has been talk about some talbots showing up as well so maybe we could feature multiple rare Rootes?

Board members,
Today I signed my life away,on the hotel contract that is.It kills me to say this but I was NOT able to get the rates of rooms negotiated down,Since the hotel already went down in price so much for our group.Just as a comparison the shelby group had contacted french lick last year as new location for our spring fling,They would fill up all 443 rooms at the hotel and the lowest rate they recieved was 190 a night.I understand this is the most we have payed to date but feel it is within reason for most attendants,however they are willing to amend some items if we go over our block numbers.so getting the word out early will be crucial to us.
The speedway is also confirmed for our autocross,but have several question id like to ask the board

Thanks
Pat

TEAE toDo list

Date posted here does not necessarily match the date minutes were submitted.

april 13 2008
curt hoffman

I have compiled what I believe to be the club’s work list. I have included, as near as I can determine from the various spots on the forum, an update for each. Some are done, some are being worked, and some appear to be lost in space.

My recommendation:
Each owner supply an update to the area you own on this site. I will compile an update once I hear from most of you.
At the next BOD meeting make a decision on the key items-
– where to spend the money
– any remaining elections process items
– artwork approval
– whether to buy name tags
– others

Curt

1. Election process revision to ensure proper elections – A. DiBattista

2. Name recognition (banners, paid advertising, etc.) ?

3. Marque Business plan T. Ehrhart

4. Name Tags F. Baum

5. Banners (taken from #2 above) T. Ehrhart

6. Review and refine draft of WJS award ?

7. Web Host Job description Jim D’Amelio

8. Publicity initiative Dave Kellogg

9. United photo DVD T. Ehrhart

10. How to spend our money – ?

Status as near as I can tell from the variety of locations things are discussed:

1. Elections process

Combined October/November edition. Then we don’t have to include it in a December issue which would be out too late to satisfy the by-laws. This gives editor time to feature the United while it’s still fresh in members’ minds and allow for an early profile/ballot edition. This could also, depending on timing, be placed in the December issue.

This would alleviate any conflict with proper accounting and membership issues, since we have done the combined issue before.

Profiles could be deadlined at October 15. Profiles not received would be given general description. That is to report the name of the candidate and where they live (city and state).

I got away from the backside address thing on the ballot because it took up a page of valuable space. Giving the members the three ways to vote (electronic, fax, snail mail) should allow everyone at least one method by which to cast their ballot.

I suggest that we do a special email to all the Electronic RR recipients containing the ballot after we publish it in the RR. We can reference the bios in the RR they get electronically. I think this additional step will get more interest from the ERR folks where not having a paper ballot would be less motivation to vote.

2. Name recognition (banners, paid advertising, etc.) ?

Other than for the banners I can not find an owner for this or what it really means. We will need someone to speak up on this.

3. Marque Business plan T. Ehrhart

Still on burner. Tom states still working but is not on original track.

4. Name Tags F. Baum

Two versions of artwork were proposed with some critique of both. No further discussion. General agreement to buy for list of officers and BOD but some controversy. Was to be put to vote by Anthony. Needs vote on artwork and whether to do at all.

5. Banners (taken from #2 above) T. Ehrhart

Agreement to make new banners for use at events. Last status was artwork was being developed by a vendor and getting ready. Not sure if artwork for banners was to be same as for name tags which has not yet been decided. BOD approved artwork. Labor intensive Vector Artwork being generated

6. Review and refine draft of WJS award ? C. Hoffman did some work in this area and views this as done.

Not sure what this really means. I published criteria for use in United and received no other input so I am assuming criteria is set. I have given criteria to Joe for United this year. Here is what I pulled off forum.

Wally Swift award criteria:
A south Jersey trophy shop designed the Wally Swift Memorial plaque and has the artwork on file. Judy Sharkey volunteered to keep record of the annual winners and secure the plaques as needed.

Adopted by TEAE BOD, 2006

1) The award is presented at each United to the owner of the car or cars who does the best in the Popular Vote and the Autocross, combined

2) He/She must own the car(s) that is in the Popular Vote and must own and drive the car(s) in the autocross. The car(s) receiving the Popular Votes and car(s) being Autocrossed does not have to be the same car.

3) The person must have been a member of TE/AE prior to the participation in the Autocross or the Popular Vote, whichever is held first.

4) Eligible Alpines and Tigers shall possess the original engine type, i.e. Alpines: Rootes four cylinder engines, Tigers: Small block Ford Engine. Modifications are acceptable.

5) The award is based on the combined finishing positions in the Popular Vote and Autocross events, using the finishing position (e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4…) as the points assigned. The award goes to the person with the lowest total points. In the Popular Vote, the points will be determined by where the car ranks in the Most Popular Alpine or Most Popular Tiger vote. In the Autocross, it will be based on the overall finishing position of the car in the Autocross (not by class).

6) Example: An Alpine that the person owns gets third place in the Most Popular Alpine vote. This would be three points. The person drives a Tiger that he owns to the fourth fastest overall time in the Autocross. This would be four points. His point total for the Wally Swift Award would be 7 points.

7) If there is a tie in points, the award goes to the fastest autocross time. If there is no one meeting these criteria, the award is not made for that year.

The award is open to the owners of Tigers and Alpines only. Tigers must have a Ford engine based on the 260-289-302 small block and Alpines must have an Alpine engine. No conversions are eligible. A person must participate in both the Autocross and the Popular Vote to be eligible.

9) There will be a perpetual trophy and a personal trophy given to the winner. There will be one perpetual trophy that has a plaque containing all previous winners’ names and will pass from winner-to-winner at each United. The personal trophy will remain with the winner.

10) Any criteria not covered here will be the decision of the Board and that decision will add to these criteria for future awards.

7. Web Host Job description Jim D’Amelio

No status given that I can find. Two different versions of who owns- one is Anthony DiBattista would contact Jim Morrison for a job description to provide to the newsletter editor for publishing. Not sure if this is a typo given the other place I could find stated J. D’Amelio owns. In any case, no status anywhere I could find.l

8. Publicity initiative Dave Kellogg
No status anywhere on forum.

9. United photo DVD T. Ehrhart
I believe this is now done

10. How to spend our money – ?

After a plethora of comments on spending recommending everything from doing nothing to buying a Lexus for all members, this is the final reco from Anthony.

) Get quality cases for the Keith Porter awards and get the awards themselves returned to like new condition to show respect for Keith and the recipient.
2) By our new banners
3) Advertise in a national car enthusiast’s magazine so that we appeal to other car buffs and expose our unique interests to others.
4) Name badges for the officers, BOD, and the Regional Representatives. Did we not vote on this very issue at the United XXVII BOD meeting?
5) Keep the rest of the cash in the bank for future asset allocations / bad times.

In addition this was a final note on possibility for money. No further action taken since this comment was made.

I propose that we set the ERR dues equal to the cost of the mailed RR price of $33 minus the costs savings we get by not having to print and mail them. The best info I have says it is about $.60 per issue to mail and $.25 per issue or print (the marginal cost per issue). So $.85 per issue total. Let’s say we do 11 issues per year and that gives us $9.35 per year. So I would propose a $24 per year rate for the ERR folks. This larger difference (than the current $3) between the RR and the ERR price would encourage more folks to change over and maybe a few more to join in the first place. We have always said we wanted to have more folks do the ERR and this is a way to do it that costs us nothing.


Tom  Ehrhart
4/17/08

Curt, First, thanks for such a comprehensive overview of club action items. They concur with my notes and are as I remember them. And your observations of progress appear to be right on too, little that there is. I concur with your recommendations for ERR. Thanks too for telling me (us) to check in here. I plead guilty for not being on attentive on line.

Here is a status report for the TT action items.

2. Name recognition.
No progress. This could be merged with Item # 3 Marque Business Plan.

3. Marque Business Plan.
I have not made sufficient progress to present anything yet.

5. Banners
The design is as you noted, a derivative of the proposed name badge presented at the last United. Fred was the primary designer. We just received notice this week from the vendor that banners can be available for the BASH. You were correct in noting there was controversy about design. This design was agreed on at the last United for the name badge and possible use for a banner. It’s rather generic and promotes TEAE and its website. with the general consensus that we really do need banners, Fred and I went ahead with this project. I can’t send banner illustratin because I have dial up Intermittent Internet

6 WJS award. Your WJS recommendations are what we placed with the trophy at the last United, I believe. Might want to confirm with Carl Moon who presently has trophy.

7 Web host. My notes state Jim D. was asked to draft a description which could be used to recruit a successor. Anthony was going to consult with Jim M for assistance. I am not aware of any progress either.

8. David Kellogg has been making PR overtures as of late however I am not aware of any results.

9. DVD’s are out and done. Extras made are for sale. $9.00

10. How to spend $
1. Cases for KP awards. Carl Moon and I have talked about working on this. I have identified a case. I’ll make it an action item for our discussion at the BASH.
4. We agreed to make name badges for officers/BOD/Reps to be warn at United. The problem was what type badge. Fred and TT were to work out options. Both Fred and I have come up with types of badges but have not resolved a final recommendation.